All of us, every single man, woman, and child on the face of the Earth were born with the same unalienable rights; to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And, if the governments of the world can't get that through their thick skulls, then, regime change will be necessary.
I do not support Obama's social and economic agenda but I read his foreign agenda as being just fine and supperior to that of the previous Administrations.
The Israel exmaple is a good one. For a start the issue of Jerusalam is still on the debating books, the US supports the 67 frontier thus any "clear texts" of that city being "Isreal" should be taken out until there is a clear official policy of recognition.
That is not antagonism. Also there is a strong argument that past Administrations basically supported Israel at a level of exclusivity, not so much in trade but in the political sense, such as the automatic veto right on any condemnation of actions done by Israel. That has been, if anything, an embarassment to the United States. Obama has made it clear that there are many reasons for closeness to Israel, that treaties and cultural ties are extremely close and that the US will protetect that country. He has also made it clear that notwithstanding that closeness, it should not mean that the bad relationship that Israel has with other nations should not impede the US in having a good one. Obama also said that it should not get in the way with a relationship and support for an up-and-coming Palestinian State.
I have no issues and frankly support these ideals. It should also be noted that I do not have confidence that the Palestinians are capable of running a State and fulfill international obligations, it is simply to factionalised, militant and tainted.
Jerusalem is Israel's capitol as it was 3000 years ago. It's irrelevant what it's enemies say. Does the whole world have to agree on something to make it true?
Fine, now we know there's one more thing we disagree on. In General I don't support Obama's social or economic policy either, but I also don't support his foreign policy, especially when it comes to Israel. Israel is Americas Ally in the region and given the nature of what the Palestinians are saying and doing right now, we have little reason to doubt that a Palestinian state would be hostile to our interest, and a sponsor of terrorism as well, even long after Israel disappeared.
Damien Omen II, it's all a giant stupid discussion.
THERE IS ZERO, ABSOLUTELY ZERO chance of any actual peace in the ME.
It's like this, no sovereign state run by non muslims, on land previously conquered by muslims will be tolerated in the ME.
Therefore, it is permanent war.
Any protestations to the contrary by so called peace seeking govts, or groups, can NEVER overcome the minimal LARGEST PLURALITY of public opinion, and canonical majority which is behind the BELIEFS of HAMAS.
The muslim public BELIEVES in the object of HAMAS' policies. The PLA believes in the goal of HAMAS' policies
AS every single pew poll has shown, as every single muslim govt HAS ACTUALLY ACTED...including NOW Israel's so called strategic ally, Turkey.
This entire subject is a farce. Jerusalem will remain Israel's undivided capital so long as there is an Israel.
No peace will ever occur. No peace will ever be kept. No infidels will ever rule ANYWHERE in the ME without war.
That is what the people there really want.
Irrespective of what the people of Israel really want.
Obama is simply not the man to oppose this fact.
So called Realism in foreign policy is actually a lack of leadership to change the ground on which reality stands.
Obama is not only the worst pres since Carter in terms of Foreign policy, he might be the worst since the Articles of Confederation
EPA, you said "as every single muslim govt HAS ACTUALLY ACTED...".
Yes, really? Go ahead, put your effort now or look the immature gas-bag that you appear to be.
It is rather sad that mindless claims are being made that can only make your cause look totally stupid and yet the one who asks for verification gets jumped on.
"Jerusalem is Israel's capitol as it was 3000 years ago."
Excuse me, but if we want to go into historical or religous arguments, then let us start talking about native land rights, indigenous rights or perhaps chucking out the northern Iberians out of the southern part, and so on and so forth.
If we start going down the religous road, then the city of David became the city of Christ and of course the Muslims will argue then it became a Muslim, etc, etc.
There are a hundred plus arguments to why Jerusalem may or may not be Israel's capital, but at least use the logical ones.
10 comments:
Pastorius,
Obama is not only a bad president, he's no friend, for Israel, a nation that is our ally, yet Obama apparently doesn't see it that way.
As has been his pattern throughout his Presidency, the closer allies we are, the more he antagonizes them. He only treats our enemies with respect.
Pastorius,
That's a good slogan for whoever runs against him in 2012.
I do not support Obama's social and economic agenda but I read his foreign agenda as being just fine and supperior to that of the previous Administrations.
The Israel exmaple is a good one. For a start the issue of Jerusalam is still on the debating books, the US supports the 67 frontier thus any "clear texts" of that city being "Isreal" should be taken out until there is a clear official policy of recognition.
That is not antagonism. Also there is a strong argument that past Administrations basically supported Israel at a level of exclusivity, not so much in trade but in the political sense, such as the automatic veto right on any condemnation of actions done by Israel. That has been, if anything, an embarassment to the United States. Obama has made it clear that there are many reasons for closeness to Israel, that treaties and cultural ties are extremely close and that the US will protetect that country. He has also made it clear that notwithstanding that closeness, it should not mean that the bad relationship that Israel has with other nations should not impede the US in having a good one. Obama also said that it should not get in the way with a relationship and support for an up-and-coming Palestinian State.
I have no issues and frankly support these ideals. It should also be noted that I do not have confidence that the Palestinians are capable of running a State and fulfill international obligations, it is simply to factionalised, militant and tainted.
Jerusalem is Israel's capitol as it was 3000 years ago. It's irrelevant what it's enemies say. Does the whole world have to agree on something to make it true?
Damien Charles QC,
Fine, now we know there's one more thing we disagree on. In General I don't support Obama's social or economic policy either, but I also don't support his foreign policy, especially when it comes to Israel. Israel is Americas Ally in the region and given the nature of what the Palestinians are saying and doing right now, we have little reason to doubt that a Palestinian state would be hostile to our interest, and a sponsor of terrorism as well, even long after Israel disappeared.
Damien Omen II, it's all a giant stupid discussion.
THERE IS ZERO, ABSOLUTELY ZERO chance of any actual peace in the ME.
It's like this, no sovereign state run by non muslims, on land previously conquered by muslims will be tolerated in the ME.
Therefore, it is permanent war.
Any protestations to the contrary by so called peace seeking govts, or groups, can NEVER overcome the minimal LARGEST PLURALITY of public opinion, and canonical majority which is behind the BELIEFS of HAMAS.
The muslim public BELIEVES in the object of HAMAS' policies.
The PLA believes in the goal of HAMAS' policies
AS every single pew poll has shown, as every single muslim govt HAS ACTUALLY ACTED...including NOW Israel's so called strategic ally, Turkey.
This entire subject is a farce.
Jerusalem will remain Israel's undivided capital so long as there is an Israel.
No peace will ever occur.
No peace will ever be kept.
No infidels will ever rule ANYWHERE in the ME without war.
That is what the people there really want.
Irrespective of what the people of Israel really want.
Obama is simply not the man to oppose this fact.
So called Realism in foreign policy is actually a lack of leadership to change the ground on which reality stands.
Obama is not only the worst pres since Carter in terms of Foreign policy, he might be the worst since the Articles of Confederation
Thanks, Epa. You've come up with the perfect name for him.
EPA, you said "as every single muslim govt HAS ACTUALLY ACTED...".
Yes, really? Go ahead, put your effort now or look the immature gas-bag that you appear to be.
It is rather sad that mindless claims are being made that can only make your cause look totally stupid and yet the one who asks for verification gets jumped on.
"Jerusalem is Israel's capitol as it was 3000 years ago."
Excuse me, but if we want to go into historical or religous arguments, then let us start talking about native land rights, indigenous rights or perhaps chucking out the northern Iberians out of the southern part, and so on and so forth.
If we start going down the religous road, then the city of David became the city of Christ and of course the Muslims will argue then it became a Muslim, etc, etc.
There are a hundred plus arguments to why Jerusalem may or may not be Israel's capital, but at least use the logical ones.
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