This news might be even bigger than I thought.
Check it out,
Note that Tommy Robinson said,
"I acknowledge the dangers of far-right extremism and the ongoing need to counter Islamist ideology not with violence but with better, democratic ideas.”
“And whilst I want to lead a revolution against Islamist ideology, I don't want to lead a revolution against Muslims.
“I believe that the revolution needs to come from within the Islamic community and they need to stand up. And I believe this is a step forward not a step back.”
THE QUILLIAM FOUNDATION is led by a former leader of Hizb-ut-tahrir named Maajid Nawaz.
He has a book coming out this month called "Radical: My Journey out of Extremism".
Quilliam is dedicated to eliminating Islamic Extremism in the West.
The announcement of the EDL split will be made in a press conference hosted by Quilliam LATER TODAY.
If Pamela and Robert join forces with such an organization it truly could be the beginning of the end of Islamic Sharia/Jihad in the West.
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Quilliam facilitates Tommy Robinson leaving the English Defence League
Posted in: 2013, Press Releases | October 8, 2013 at 08:47
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Quilliam is proud to announce that Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll, the leaders of the anti-Islamist group, the English Defence League (EDL), have decided to leave the group. Having set up the EDL, infamous for its street protests, in 2009, they wish to exit this group, because they feel they can no longer keep extremist elements at bay.
Posted in: 2013, Press Releases | October 8, 2013 at 08:47
No comments
Quilliam is proud to announce that Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll, the leaders of the anti-Islamist group, the English Defence League (EDL), have decided to leave the group. Having set up the EDL, infamous for its street protests, in 2009, they wish to exit this group, because they feel they can no longer keep extremist elements at bay.
Tommy Robinson said:
“I have been considering this move for a long time because I recognise that, though street demonstrations have brought us to this point, they are no longer productive. I acknowledge the dangers of far-right extremism and the ongoing need to counter Islamist ideology not with violence but with better, democratic ideas.”
Quilliam has been working with Tommy to achieve this transition, which represents a huge success for community relations in the United Kingdom. We have previously identified the symbiotic relationship between far-right extremism and Islamism and think that this event can dismantle the underpinnings of one phenomenon while removing the need for the other phenomenon.
We hope to help Tommy invest his energy and commitment in countering extremism of all kinds, supporting the efforts to bring along his former followers and encouraging his critique of Islamism as well as his concern with far-right extremism. We call all of Tommy’s former colleagues in the EDL to follow in his footsteps and also call on Islamist extremist leaders to follow this example and leave their respective groups. Tommy and Kevin believe the voice they have created can be channelled in a positive direction. Quilliam stands ready to facilitate such moves across the spectrum.
Quilliam Chairman and Co-Founder Maajid Nawaz said:
“As well as being a very positive change for the United Kingdom, this is a very proud moment for Quilliam. This represents not a change but a continuation for us, as challenging extremism of all kinds forms the basis of our work. We have been able to show that Britain stands together against extremism regardless of political views and hope to continue supporting Tommy and Kevin in their journey to counter Islamism and neo-Nazi extremism.”
We are hosting a press conference for Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll’s departure from the EDL at an undisclosed location in London today, 8 October 2013 at 6:30pm and will field all questions then. Entrance will be strictly conditional on the presentation of press passes; please contact media@quilliamfoundation.org or call 020 7182 7275 or 020 7182 7278 if you would like to attend and more details will be provided but please do not RSVP if you are not press.
26 comments:
Do you know what Quilliam's done so far? I've never heard of them before.
EDL seemed like it was going to shape itself into the next Nazi style party so I'm glad Tommy Robinson left. Sad though that he couldn't control the party's direction.
In the ideal world, Islam would just vanish because enough good people would stand against it. In reality though, I agree with Tommy Robinson that Muslims themselves have to stand up against, what basically is, most of their own religion.
I would have a lot more respect for so called moderate Muslims if they spoke up and stood up against the real Islam than I do right now.
However I'd probably be optimistic once I see them actually doing something, making a difference.
In the end I hope Tommy Robinson knows what he's doing.
Nicoenarg
We have been able to show that Britain stands together against extremism regardless of political views and hope to continue supporting Tommy and Kevin in their journey to counter Islamism and neo-Nazi extremism.
I do like the above. Islam (Islamism is a made up word that has no meaning) and Nazism are one and the same.
Makes me have a tiny bit of hope.
Nicoenarg
Any 'hope' is tempered by the reality that the term "Muslim" is part and parcel of "Islam" which is defined as the immutable word of allah (implying 'god' but not to be confused with the Western understanding of "GOD").
My skepticism meter hits orange/red when considering Quilliam is founded by enlightened "Muslims" disputing "Islamism".
If the queens minions could infiltrate and undermine the EDL, what prevents devout but deceitful Islamists/Islamophiles from penetrating Quilliam and gaining access to and exposing to danger any of these icons of counter jihad?
Color me seriously skeptical and even alarmed, despite being aware of each of these CJ icons awareness of the dangers they individually face.
Well, you are a man who used to be a Muslim. Your choice was to not only convert from Islam to Christianity, but to sever your ties to the Muslim world altogether.
You now have no contact with your family or former friends.
I think that is a strong way to go about a conversion, and I admire you for what you have done.
But most people are not going to leave their families.
In other words, most people are not going to just leave the Muslim world altogether.
Therefore, if Muslims could define within their own communities, and their own world in general, a new way of looking at their culture and their religion and their family life, based upon some shared set of principles that they engineer, that would be a way out without forcing them to make the extreme decisions you have made, and therefore saving their family relationships to some extent.
If I were a muslim and I wanted to change the Muslim world, I would form an Organization called
IJMA
AND I WOULD WANDER THE COMMUNITIES BY WHICH I WAS SURROUNDED ATTEMPTING TO FORM A CONSENSUS THAT CONSENSUS IS THE WAY TO GOVERN.
Not coercion, intimidation and murder, but consensus built upon shared opinions.
I hear what you're saying. But there are few people who have EVER been more dedicated to a cause than Robert and Pamela. They are almost unwavering in their focus on the goal of goal of eliminating Sharia and Jihad as a threat to the Western world and Israel.
The third Anon comment wasn't from me.
To your point though, I don't expect so-called moderate Muslims to sever all ties. I do expect, if they truly are moderate, them to be the loudest voice out there against Islam (others can call it Islamism, I don't like deluding myself). And like you said, I also expect them to be at the forefront of creating a new culture in their communities that is Western in nature.
But as I write that, I really don't see how it is possible. People point to the reformation of the Church. But to that I would say, the church reformed BACK to its roots to rid itself (or to try and rid itself) of the evil practices (it still hasn't been completely successful).
I don't know how Muslims would give heed to anything or anyone who tells them to move AWAY from their religion. And that is a serious discussion that I would like to have since, if I haven't misunderstood your position, you and I both agree that terrorists don't just hijack Islam, but that they are actually following Islam to the letter.
Nicoenarg
PS: As to conversion to Christianity. An ex-Muslim can't stay part of the Muslim community and be a true Christian as well. Its like worshiping both God and Allah at the same time (or God and mammon). It just can't work. Besides, Muslims aren't too keen on letting you live if you disagree with them anyway.
I recently met two Indians from Fiji. He is a Christian and she is a born Muslim. She converted to Christianity and fell in love with him, and they married.
I asked her if this caused any trouble with her family and she said, "No."
People like that exist.
The more people we encourage to be like that, the more people like that will step forward.
See what I mean?
Yeah, I see what you mean.
Then we are talking about them leaving their religion? And encouraging others to do so within their communities?
The woman from Fiji might not have had trouble with her family but that doesn't mean the same will happen with others in other parts of the world.
I once was talking to a pastor in Dubai who told me about a Pakistani convert to Christianity who was in hiding for fear of his life, somewhere in Pakistan. The guy was begging this pastor to get him out to safety. The pastor said he knew enough people in Washington to get the Pakistani guy out but he believed it was "God's will" to leave him in Pakistan, in his community, and if he had to die, well then that would be God's will too.
I personally don't believe it is our right to tell people to basically commit suicide for "God's will" or our mission or whatever.
And in a lot of cases asking ex-Muslims to "come out" means just that, death.
So I'm not sure if that was what you meant, but if it is then I guess I would much rather point a nuke toward Mecca.
Nicoenarg
Yes, and that idea that it is God's will that we just die is more of a Muslim idea than it is a Christian idea.
However, that being said, I think there is a similar idea that animates Western Christian willful ignorance of Islamic Jihad against Christians in the Arab world and Africa.
I think the Christians here think the Christians there should just shut up and die already.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01jf41m
audio of Tommy speaking in his own words.
Quoting Jim Duggie's comment at Gates of Vienna on same topic:
"Lennon spells it out loud and clear. He spent three years clearing the Nazis out of the EDL, then he was banged up for four months for his little jaunt to the US, so he lost control of the movement.
When he came back after being released all the extremists had dutifully infiltrated themselves back in. And so thoroughly that the game was not worth the candle any more.
Remember too that he was being held personally financially liable for protests etc.
Yes the government’s actions led to today’s events. But the explanation is much more clear cut than all the conspiracy theorizing. Stop hearing zebras.
The EDL was already being successfully eliminated by the state’s pressure on Lennon and his family, and was only reanimated following the Rigby killing."
I don't know what "hearing Zebras" means. What are you trying to say.
occam's razor, i think
when you hear hoofbeats it's usu horses, not zebras
Quilliam is dedicated to eliminating Islamic Extremism in the West.
It all comes down to this, IMO:
Is Islam itself extremist or not?
Welcome back AOW.
And that is exactly what I say. Islam is the problem. Any other solution is merely temporary but even within the so-called counter jihad movement, that reality does not seem to stick.
Nicoenarg
Pasto, exactly. It is an Islamic idea, completely. But pastors (this guy was from the US) have decided to accept Islamic practices as God's will in cases where they think they're doing God's will. This pastor, who left a man to die, is a despicable person (if you could even call him that). And so are all the others who are happy to leave their brethren to die without even lifting a finger. Or saying anything against it.
You have churches talking against Israel. You have churches holding "Chrislam" sessions where they read the Quran. But talk about Christians being mercilessly being killed in Muslim countries? "OH NO! That is God's will. Besides, we don't want to offend our Muslim Brothers!!"
Anyway, I don't and would never support converts to Christianity in Muslim countries to "come out" and declare it publicly WHILE they're in Muslim countries. I would get behind any movement, however, that takes the converts to Christianity and moves them to safety.
Nicoenarg
Nico,
Regarding that pastor who felt the christian convert should stay in Pakistan.
Either he has been smoking something or he is one of those who's head in inside some other kind of crack.
Some Christians can be so horribly naive and obviously this one doesn't have a clue what that convert in Pakistan is up against.
I hope that person got/gets out before it's too late.
I see it as God's will that people are allowed to live and speak to others about their conversion. No, not wacko islamists in pakistan, that's for sure.
That is one big ass brick wall that would come crashing down and be lethal.
You are in an extreme minority on that.
Everyone I know who is involved in converting Muslims to Christianity believes they should stay put as a witness to the other Muslims.
I do not believe it is a sane idea to leave someone to witness to muslims in a place that is a serious risk to their lives.
Let them go to someplace more conducive to christians. At least to a place that has laws against all murder.
Christine, most missionaries that I came across in the Middle East hold the opinion that, as Pasto said, Muslims who convert to Christianity should stay put and tell other Muslims about their conversion.
The pastor I was talking about was fully aware that the guy was going to get killed (I'm not sure what happened eventually). In fact he told me that there was a mob out looking for him and he couldn't hide where he was hiding for much longer. But he also said it with a smile that "he stays in Pakistan, he will have the blessing of dying for God...I can get him to the US but what then? He will go gambling in Vegas..." Those were his exact words.
Another missionary I was talking to said that "it only happens in movies where Muslims kill apostates, it is your duty that you tell people about your conversion and let God worry about the consequences."
Another pastor in Dubai was furious with me and my wife when he found out we didn't eat Halal food. I told him the whole process that goes into making meats "halal" or acceptable (eg, worshiping Allah and doing everything in the name of Allah, etc). He said we were offending Muslims by not eating halal meat and that we should stop doing that. He said he doesn't eat any pork because he knows that offends his "Muslim brothers". Of course we stopped going to that church.
He had no problem offending God (long discussion), but offend Muslims? OH NO!
A couple of "youth pastors" here in Argentina told me I "watched too much CNN" when I told them that Christians are persecuted in Muslim countries and that they knew that Islam was a religion of peace since they had a Muslim visitor in their university who told them so.
One of them, at a later time, got furious when my wife said that Israel, according to the Bible, never stopped being considered God's people.
I have been a Christian almost 10 years now. And having come across these kinds of "pastors" I am of the opinion that Christ would be as ashamed and disappointed of these people as God was of the Israelites who worshiped Baal and Moloch.
I know a lot of what I said here does not apply to the discussion at hand. But its not just the Muslims who are either buying or propagating these kinds of lies, its also the Christians (and I'm sure there are Jews like that as well).
In the end, I have about zero hope that the Christian leadership will ever stand for the truth and for the Christians (and Jews) being persecuted by Muslims all over.
Nicoenarg
Nico,
You said "Christine, most missionaries that I came across in the Middle East hold the opinion that, as Pasto said, Muslims who convert to Christianity should stay put and tell other Muslims about their conversion."
Like I said, I am totally against this if they are in a country where they could be killed.
I don't believe christians should be dying as martyrs. Of course they have and do at times. But I don't believe it should be done on a suicidal basis.
Leaving these people in countries like pakistan is a death sentence.
Sorry, I cannot go along with it.
Christine,
Yeah. I don't think any sane person would go along with it.
Nicoenarg
"Quilliam is dedicated to eliminating Islamic Extremism in the West."
Sadly for Islam there can be only one God.
Permit me to doubt and look how they react to the Jews.
"Israel’s killing machine will strengthen Al Qaeda’s metanarrative and radicalize yet another generation of young Muslims."
Al-Taqiyya they remind me of the Gulen org.
It would seem they're blaming it on the Jews.
That sounds familiar.
It would seem they're blaming it on the Jews.
That sounds familiar.
Nico -> 'he stays in Pakistan, he will have the blessing of dying for God...I can get him to the US but what then? He will go gambling in Vegas...'
EFFED UP MAN!
If someone bravely has chosen religious and personal freedom in that hellhole of religious strife, let them come here and enjoy it here, and have their children enjoy it.
Vegas? In the end it's BORING. Except for the shows. If this guy is loaded enough to go to vegas and blow it on gambling and go to the shows ... as my bubby would have said ... 'Gai gezunterhait'
EFFED UP MAN!
Definitely. Its despicable.
If someone bravely has chosen religious and personal freedom in that hellhole of religious strife, let them come here and enjoy it here, and have their children enjoy it.
Vegas? In the end it's BORING. Except for the shows. If this guy is loaded enough to go to vegas and blow it on gambling and go to the shows ... as my bubby would have said ... 'Gai gezunterhait'
Problem with some people (like that pastor) is they want to control other people's lives. They look at freedom as "decadence" (they vilify American freedoms when they visit other countries, like this one did in Dubai).
I have a very strong hatred for people who control or try to control others' lives in the name of God or Allah or Buddha or what have you.
I thought this was a Muslim trait but I've seen it a lot in Christian missionaries.
I say if you have such love for "dying for God" then go die yourself, don't make life decisions for others.
Nicoenarg
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