Donald Trump's Congressional Testimony on the Construction Cost Overruns of the United Nations Building, and How To Fix The Problem

People don't like Donald Trump.

There is no doubt. The man looks like a buffoon.

He is a reality television star.

He talks as if he knows everything.

He makes pronouncements like a drunk standup at a comedy club.

He is an embarrassment.

But he is not truly an idiot. He is a man of his time, of the media world, who knows how to communicate in soundbites.

He is a "Great Communicator", one who knows how to manipulate the confines of our LOL age.

He is well-aware of his buffoonish nature. He has a bitter of Shakespeare's Hal in him.

Truth is, he wouldn't be as successful as he is, if he were not able to buckle down and focus when the situation calls for it.

At a time like that, he ceases to be the buffoon.

A few years back, Trump was called to testify before Congress on the subject of the cost overruns on the reconstruction of the United Nations building.

His testimony was focused, intelligent, and concise, considering the massive amount of information and analytics he had to deal with in his testimony.

I came away convinced that Trump did not just get lucky in the business world. I also came away convinced that Trump knows how to work a room, any room. The man is a communicator, on whatever level he needs to communicate on at the time, for the specific purpose of a specific setting.

I am not predisposed to liking Trump. I do not like much of his politics. But I do like his anti-immigration stance, and his no-nonsense quality.

Oh, by the way, in his testimony, Trump noted that the cost they were projecting was $1.2 billion. Trump said he could do it for $750 million.

Trump PREDICTED that in three years, cost overruns by the company contracted would bring the project to $3 Billion.

Currently, it seems, the cost is at almost $2.6 Billion:

As of March 2014, the cost overrun was estimated at $370 million — a 19 per cent increase. Turning to the estimated final cost of the Plan, he noted its amount of $2.21 million and that 99.2 per cent of the estimated costs to completion had been expended and/or committed. Noting that the responsibilities for the post-renovation construction and close-out activities would be transferred from the Plan’s Office to the Office of Central Support Service, he sought assurances that Plan-related costs would be borne by that Office under the regular budget.

So Trump was right, even if a little off.

Read his testimony. Watch the video. Tell me what you think:

TESTIMONY OF DONALD J. TRUMP,\1\ CHAIRMAN AND PRESIDENT, 

THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION


Mr. Trump. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Members of 
the Subcommittee. It is a great honor to have been invited, and 
if I can lend a hand, I would certainly love to do so.
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    \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Trump with attachments appears in 
the appendix on page 315.
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    I have to start by saying I am a big fan, a very big fan of 
the United Nations and all it stands for. I cannot speak as to 
what has been happening over the last number of years because 
it certainly has not been good, but the concept of the United 
Nations and the fact that the United Nations is in New York is 
very important to me and very important to the world as far as 
I am concerned. So I am a big fan, such a fan in fact that at 
great expense I built a building across the street. It is the 
tallest apartment house in the world. It has been a 
tremendously successful building, sold out, and I am very proud 
of it. And if the United Nations were not there, perhaps I 
would not have built it in that location, so it means quite a 
bit to me.
    My involvement with the United Nations began with a letter, 
which I will give to the Subcommittee, from the Ambassador to 
the United Nations from Sweden, and it is a long letter and a 
very beautifully written letter, and essentially he read an 
article about the success of Trump World Tower, which is the 
building that I can show you right here, which is, as you can 
see, very substantially taller than the United Nations, bigger 
than the United Nations. And he read an article in the New York 
Times saying that the building cost approximately $300 million 
to build.
    So he wrote me a letter and ultimately called me and said, 
``Is it possible that that building cost $300 million, because 
it just seems so much bigger and so much better and so much 
more expensive and so much more luxurious, and how could you 
have done that for $300 million?'' When at that time, Senator, 
they were talking about $1.5 billion to renovate the United 
Nations and this was around December 2000. I said, well, there 
are only two reasons, either gross incompetence or something 
far worse than that, and you know what the something is, and 
that is corruption, because there is absolutely no way that 
that building could have cost $1.5 billion to build.
    And I did a chart, and I looked at other buildings, and I 
heard the numbers today. I am very impressed with Mr. Burnham, 
but Mr. Burnham, it is not his business. Mr. Burnham is in a 
different business. The man he hired who has done some work, I 
guess, has just been on the payroll for 2 days, so perhaps he 
will be a great genius and he will bring down the cost to what 
it should be, which I think is about $700 million tops, and 
that is complete.
    But I did a little chart, and I looked at buildings that 
were comparable that I built, and I looked at fees also, 
architectural fees. The architectural fee for this building--
and you have to understand a residential luxury building is far 
more complex than an open-floor office building to build. It is 
much more. You have many more bathrooms, you have many more 
kitchens, you have many more rooms. It is more complex. An 
office building is essentially open space with subdividers.
    So I looked at it and I added up some of my costs, and for 
Trump World Tower, across the street, built not long ago, I 
spent approximately $258 a foot. It is the tallest residential 
building in the world, $258.32 a foot. I have 871,000 feet. It 
cost $225 million to build.
    Anybody that says that a building of renovation is more 
expensive than building a new building does not know the 
business ...





...because you have a frame built, you have your 
foundations built. You have in many cases elevators that can be 
reutilized in their entirety, but fixed. You have many 
components that can be used, and it only costs a fool more 
money.
    I did the Grand Hyatt Hotel from the old Commodore Hotel. I 
did Trump International Hotel and Tower from the old Gulf and 
Western Building at 1 Central Park West, if you remember. I did 
the Trump Park Avenue Building from the Delmonico Hotel. I love 
doing renovation because it costs you half. It does not cost 
you more, it costs you less if you know what you are doing.
    Now, if you do not know what you are doing, it can be 
fraught with cost overruns, etc.
    So I looked at a couple of other buildings, 40 Wall Street 
is a building which is unfortunately and sadly now the tallest 
building in downtown Manhattan, sadly because the World Trade 
Center came down. It replaced 40 Wall Street. It was actually 
the tallest building in the world for a period of 1 year, and 
then superseded by the Chrysler Building and then the Empire 
State Building. But downtown Manhattan, it was superseded by 
the World Trade Center, 40 Wall Street is approximately 72 
stories tall. It was a complete gut renovation identical to 
what you are doing. We put all brand new windows, brand new 
everything in it, and I have a renovation cost of, let us say, 
$100 a foot if you add everything, and that would mean that 
your job would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of half the 
number that you are talking about, and even less.
    The way I look at it, the number that they are talking 
about--and I agree with Senator Sessions--is close to $600 or 
$700 a foot. They are not adding garages. And by the way, 
garages are very inexpensive to renovate, so that brings the 
number way down. They are not adding a lot of things that have 
to be added.
    When I went to see the Administration, and when I went to 
see Kofi Annan, I was actually quite excited because I thought 
that I could save this country, this world, everybody including 
myself, a lot of money just by sitting down and having a 
meeting. Unfortunately, as our great Senator to my right said, 
there was just no response. They did not really care. It got a 
lot of press. I walked into the room and I sat down. I felt 
like a head of State. I was sitting with Kofi Annan, and a door 
opened, and there were literally hundreds of reporters taking 
my picture. I said, ``What are we doing? I just want to tell 
you I can build a building a lot cheaper.'' And that was the 
end of it.
    I wrote letters, and you have copies of the letters.\1\ I 
wrote letters after the meeting. I thought the meeting went 
amazingly well. I was expecting a call the following day from--
whether it is Kofi Annan or his people--at that time it was a 
man named Conners. I met with Mr. Conners.
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    \1\ The letters submitted by Mr. Trump appears in the Appendix on 
pages 324-332.
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    Mr. Conners did not know the first thing about what he was 
doing. He did not know whether or not the curtain wall was 
going to be new, old, and did not even know what a curtain wall 
was. I said, ``What are you going to be doing with the curtain 
wall?'' He said, ``What is a curtain wall?'' Now, he was in 
charge of the project. The curtain wall is the skin of the 
building. I said, ``Will it be new or old?'' He said, ``I don't 
know.'' I said, ``Are you using New York steam or are you using 
a new boiler system?'' He said, ``I don't know what New York 
steam is.'' It is a very common form of heating in the 
building. He had no clue.
    The price, at that time, was $1.5 billion. I do not know 
why it came down because the world has gone up, but it came 
down. That was in the year approximately 2000 to 2001. So he 
did not have a clue. I do not know if he is still there. 
Perhaps he is.
    The one thing I found him very good at is that he did not 
want to lose control of this project. He was a man that 
absolutely wanted to keep control of the project, but he did 
not have even the slightest inkling of what it was all about, 
knew nothing about it.
    He then told me that he may move people out, he may not 
move people out. He did not know. He thought he might. He was 
not sure. He just did not know. So I went through a whole list 
of questions for him, and then I realized that the United 
Nations is in serious trouble, because the $1.5 billion that 
they were talking about, there was no way it was going to 
happen for that.
    And I say today that the $1.2 billion, which they brought 
down even though it is basically the same work and even though 
things have gotten more expensive, so I do not know why they 
brought it down because I do not think they brought it down for 
any particular reason. But the $1.2 billion, in my opinion, I 
will be sitting here in 3 years, and I will be saying--and I am 
going to predict that it will cost over $3 billion because they 
just do not know.
    I was very impressed with Mr. Burnham, but again, you have 
to deal in New York City construction to see what tough people 
are all about, to see what tough contractors are all about, and 
if you have not done it, you are going to go to school and they 
are just going to take you to lunch, and you are just not going 
to even know what happened.
    So this project at $1.2 billion, will cost in my opinion $3 
billion. In my own opinion, however, in my real opinion, it 
should cost approximately $700 million.
    I have been listening to a couple of different things, 
first, swing space. I do not think you need swing space. First 
of all, what landlord in New York is going to rent space for a 
year and a half or 2 years? Who is going to do that? You are 
going to give up a building for a year and a half or 2 years 
and say, oh, good, you just go in, mess up my building for a 
short term and then move out. Nobody is going to do that unless 
they are totally desperate, and you do not have to be desperate 
in New York. It is the hottest real estate market in the world, 
today probably, and I am saying where are they going to find 
this space to start off with? It is going to be a disaster. And 
if you know New York City landlords, and some of you do, there 
is no worse human being on earth. [Laughter.]
    They are going to have more fun with these folks from the 
United Nations when it comes to signing that lease, and the 
United Nations, their heads will be spinning. Assuming there is 
honesty, their heads will be spinning.
    So I do not know where they are going to get the space. 
They are going to have to pay so much, and no landlord is going 
to fix the space. You know, I am listening to these people that 
are very naive, and I respect them, but they are very naive in 
this world. Now, I might be naive in their world, but in this 
world they are naive to think that they are going to go into a 
building and rent hundreds and hundreds of thousands of feet of 
space--if they can find such a building and I do not know of 
any building like that--and then they are not going to have to 
pay for the renovation of that space and fixing up the space 
for a couple years.
    Now, people do that but they sign 25- and 30-year leases. I 
do not mind going into an office building and fixing up space, 
but I sign a 30-year lease or a 20-year lease or at least a 15-
year lease. These people are going to sign a 1-or a 2-year 
lease. It is ridiculous. So their concept of swing space, in my 
opinion, does not work from an economic--and the number of $98 
million is a joke because that number will be hundreds and 
hundreds of millions of dollars in just the renovation cost 
alone.
    One of the things that I had mentioned to Kofi Annan and 
the whole group, when I was at the meeting, was that there was 
no reason to move anybody out. In New York City we have a lot 
of asbestos buildings, and there is a whole debate about 
asbestos. I mean a lot of people could say that if the World 
Trade Center it would not have burned down, it would not have 
melted. A lot of people think asbestos, a lot of people in my 
industry think asbestos is the greatest fire-proofing material 
ever made, and I can tell you that I have seen tests of 
asbestos versus the new material that is being used, and it is 
not even a contest. It is like a heavyweight champion against a 
lightweight from high school. But in your great wisdom you 
folks have said asbestos is a horrible material, so it has to 
be removed.
    Space is constantly being renovated. Asbestos is constantly 
being gotten rid of with tenants in possession. You sit there. 
They wrap it, they conceal it, they do it. There are many 
professional firms. They move the asbestos. Estee Lauder's 
company, they did it while they were in possession. I could 
name a hundred tenants where it has been done while they sit in 
their offices, literally working. Sometimes it is done over 
weekends. Sometimes it is done at a little different time. They 
take sections of offices and they do it, and the people move 
from that section to another section and they are 
inconvenienced for a day and a half. And then they rebuild the 
office.
    So the concept of moving to swing space, dealing with New 
York City landlords, is absolutely ridiculous.
    Now, you can do the entire building. You can put new skin 
on the building. You can put new piping, you do not have that 
much piping because the bathrooms are all centralized. Not 
every office has a bathroom. It is not like an apartment house. 
But you can do this entire building, like I did the Grand Hyatt 
Hotel. I took the old Commodore Hotel and I made it into the 
Grand Hyatt Hotel on 42nd Street and Park Avenue. It is a great 
success. I have done this with many buildings. But it is not 
necessary to have everybody leave the building in order to 
rebuild a building, and you do not have to necessarily even do 
it at one floor at a time. You can either fix the skin or put a 
new skin on the building, and what you do is you do the roof 
first, and you seal it, and you get a 30-year guarantee. And 
what I do best in life is build, even better than ``The 
Apprentice,'' I must say. [Laughter.]
    The thing I do best is build. But you put a new roof, as I 
did with the Commodore Hotel into the Grand Hyatt, you put a 
brand new 20- or 30-year roof that is a guaranteed roof, and 
now your roof is done, like an umbrella, and then you bring the 
skin down, and as you are bringing the skin down, you are 
taking the old skin off. So by the time--and you literally have 
very little gap, very little space, but you are bringing the 
new skin down and just think of an umbrella. You are bringing 
the--and you should put new skin. This skin has been up there 
for 60 years, it is over. You can copy the skin identically. 
You can copy the color of the glass identically. You can bring 
in all the modern technology including triple pane or double 
pane glass in terms of heat and cooling and everything else, 
but you bring the skin down and--you have scaffold--and as it 
is coming down, the old skin is coming off, everything is 
sealed up beautifully.
    In the meantime, inside, your pipes are going up, your 
asbestos is coming out, your electric is being redone. You have 
companies that do nothing but redo electric. Now, these are 
different companies. You have companies that do new electric, 
they would not know how to redo electric. Then you have 
companies that redo electric, they do not know how to do new 
electric. I mean it is just a specialty.
    But you have special people that redo apartments, which are 
being renovated all the time with people in possession, that 
redo all sorts of buildings. I just built a building on Park 
Avenue and 59th Street. I had tenants in possession when I did 
it. I mean I built a major building, essentially brand new, the 
old Delmonico Hotel, and I had people living in the building 
when I did a major $100 million job. It is a $200 million 
building. So the concept of moving to another location and 
getting everybody out of this building is absolutely asinine 
and will cost you so much money you are not even going to 
believe it, and then you are going to have to move in.
    Many other things. When I did the Wollman Rink, the City of 
New York was boggled down for a period of 7 years. They had 
spent $21 million. It was a tremendous embarrassment to the 
Koch administration. And I said, ``I would like to take over 
the project.'' And they said--the New York Times came out with 
an editorial, the New York Post came out with a great 
editorial, and they said, ``Let Trump do it,'' and finally the 
city let me do it. And I rebuilt, and believe me, I used 
nothing that was there before. Everything had to be gutted out 
because it was totally incompetently done, 7 years, $21 
million. I redid it--and the Senator remembers this very well I 
guess--I redid it in 3 months for $1.8 million, and it opened, 
and I still run it today, and that was quite a while ago.
    This is no different, and in fact, in a certain way this is 
even easier. All week long you have tenants in New York 
renovating their space, you have buildings being renovated with 
what we call tenants in possession. There are tenants in 
possession, they are in possession of the space. Now, I 
listened to one thing and I have seen one thing and one number 
that sticks out more than all of the rest, because whether or 
not somebody does not know what New York steam is or what 
boilers and whether or not they have boiler rooms, which the 
people at the United Nations did not do. But the number of $44 
million for an architect is one of the great numbers in the 
history--in fact, I think this man is a genius, whoever he may 
be, wherever he may be in Italy. I think he is a great genius. 
I would like to meet him. [Laughter.]
    He is without question the richest architect in the world. 
And as one person said, ``I think they only got $500,000.'' 
Another person said, ``I think they got a million dollars,'' 
and then changed their mind and it was $7.8 million. And then I 
listened to Senator Sessions, who actually did his homework, 
said they got paid $27 million, because you were able the check 
the books. So they got paid $27 million, have not done 
anything. They do not even have plans. Nobody even knows what 
they are building, and they got paid $27 million.
    Now, I have respect for a lot of people, and I have great 
respect for architects, but I am going to give you an example. 
The tallest residential building in the world my architect got 
paid approximately $1.5 million. This architect got $44 
million. A building at 40 Wall Street, my architect got paid, 
believe me, peanuts, I think, less than $1.5 million. In 
Chicago, where I am building a building of 92 stories at the 
old Sun Times site, 2.7 million square feet, which is more than 
the United Nations if you add up all of the projects that they 
are talking about, it is larger, substantially larger. I am 
spending $600 million and they are saying they are going to 
spend $1.2 billion, so they are spending much more, and this is 
a 92-story building with brand new structure, brand new 
foundations. I am building all the roads. Mayor Daley made me 
build roads around the building. I had no choice. Otherwise, if 
you know Mayor Daley, you are not going to build the building. 
He is a great man but he made me do that. So all of this is 
$600 million, and they are spending $1.2 billion.
    Now, there is no way they are spending $1.2 billion, in my 
opinion, and based on what I have heard. When they have spent 
$27 million and terminated the architect, there is big trouble, 
because I do not think they have a new architect. So if they do 
not have a new architect, who is going to do the plans and who 
is going to do the bidding? Because in order to do a job, you 
have to have a complete set of plans and specs. If you do not 
have a complete, finished, set of plans and specs, you have 
nothing to bid on, there is no way you can bid. The worst thing 
you can do--and you said you were in the home building business 
for a while--the worst thing you can do, as you know, is start 
a job without complete plans and specs because the 
subcontractors will eat your lunch. So it is one of those 
things.
    So they do not even have an architect. They spent $27 
million and they do not have an architect. Now, I have asked on 
numerous occasions, to go in and I would help them. I would 
love to help them. I do not want any money. I want nothing. I 
have made a lot of money. I do not care. I want nothing. If 
somebody said, what would be your dream on this site? Well, my 
dream is a dream that will not happen, but it is a dream that I 
might tell you. It is a dream to take the United Nations--the 
Senator over here is probably going to go crazy--move it to the 
World Trade Center as a brand new United Nations, sell the 
United Nations site--which is one of the greatest sites in the 
world--for much more money than the whole thing would cost--and 
you end up building a free United Nations at the World Trade 
Center, where I do not think anybody is going to want to stay 
anyway. I think it is going to be a very hard rent up at the 
World Trade Center.
    But let us assume that is not going to happen--not a bad 
idea though----
    Mr. Golden. Got no problem with it.
    Mr. Trump. Not too bad. He has no problem. Most people do 
not have----
    Mr. Golden. Put Kofi Annan on the top floor. [Laughter.]
    Mr. Trump. OK. I will not get into--I did not say that. But 
the fact is that the United Nations building, with all of its 
buildings, with its parking, should be completed--and I mean 
completed--at a cost of $700 million. And it is my opinion that 
it will not be completed for less than $3 to 3.5 billion. They 
do not know what they are getting into. And please remember 
this, as somebody that has probably built as much as anybody my 
age anywhere--I do not know of anybody who has built more--if 
you do not have a complete set of plans and specifications, 
there is no way you can build. And from what I understand, they 
do not even have an architect.
    One final point. They give you some nice firms, Turner and 
this one, and Gardiner and Theobald. The fact is that I can 
take those same firms and tell them the way I want it built, 
and those same firms will come up with prices that are half the 
price that they are coming up with. They are being told what to 
do by people who do not know what they are doing. So if I take 
Turner Construction, which is fine, or if I take a couple of 
other--and by the way, when I say ``fine'', fine but Rolls 
Royce. They spend money. But if I take a couple of those firms, 
and if I show them the right way to do it, and if I lead them 
down the right way--which is really what a good developer 
does--that number that they are coming up with will be cut in 
half.
    So that is it. Congratulations, you have yourself a mess on 
your hands, and it is only going to get worse.
    Senator Coburn. Mr. Trump, thank you very much. Let me ask 
you a couple of questions. Your renovation cost per square foot 
on an average building, and let us say with asbestos abatement, 
what is it, $100 or $150?
    Mr. Trump. I think any professional--I was speaking to 
somebody very professional, Richard LeFrak before. He said he 
just gave out an architectural contract on a million foot 
building for $1.5 million, not $44 million, $1.5 million, so it 
is the same size, $1.5 million.
    I would say that because of the United Nations in terms of 
security and some enhanced needs, let us assume it is beyond 
even your normal high-grade office building--which it is really 
not; essentially it is an office building. But let us add 
something for security. I would think you should easily do it 
for $250 a foot, easily. And that means complete. That is not 
adding up all of this other stuff, which by the way was not 
given to you. You have many things listed on that board that 
were not given to you.
    Senator Coburn. Right. When you say $250 a square foot, 
that is in today's dollars, so if we wait 2 years, there is 
going to be some price inflation in that?
    Mr. Trump. They do not even have an architect so how can 
they start sooner than that? First of all, to do a good set of 
plans and specs is going to take you a good year, so if you do 
not have an architect even hired yet because the last one 
ripped you off or did whatever he did--that guy is 
unbelievable. I mean this guy, I want to meet him. I can learn 
from that guy. So you have a man that got paid $27 million that 
you are not going to use. So now let us assume you have to 
start all over because no architect is going to take over 
somebody's plans in the middle. You just do not want to do 
that, OK?
    The other thing is, how do you hire an architect from 
Italy? I love Italy. I love the Italians. How do you hire an 
Italian architect? What happens? Every time he wants to check 
the building, he gets on a plane and flies for 8\1/2\ hours, 
and he goes to the New York City Building Department and he 
does not even speak English? I mean it is ridiculous.
    So what they have is they really have a problem and I do 
not see how they can ever start. Now, if you put a developer 
like myself or like any one of five other people--and I can 
only think of five--in charge of a job like that, you could 
have that job started immediately. You could have the asbestos 
removed with tenants in possession. You could have the entire 
building rebuilt in less than 2 years.
    You know, Kofi Annan asked me one question. At the time--
and I am only increasing it because of the fact that when I met 
him it was 4 years ago--but at the time I said I could do it I 
think for $400 million versus their $1.5 billion. Slightly 
different number, right? He said, ``What would be the 
difference in the building?'' I said, ``The difference would be 
my building would be better, be much newer, much richer.'' I 
was putting in all brand new marble floors on the ground--I 
like marble--I was putting in all brand new marble floors. They 
have all broken up terrazzo floors. Under their plan they were 
leaving these all broken floors. They are broken, old, and 
terrazzo is not exactly a great material, it is garbage. But I 
was putting in all brand new marble. I was putting in an all 
new curtain wall. They were going to fix their curtain wall. If 
you fix that curtain wall, it is a disaster. You have to put in 
a brand new curtain wall. You will get another 50 years. If you 
fix it, it is not the answer. It is going to leak, it is going 
to be a problem.
    So he asked me the question, and I said, ``The answer is it 
is going to be better. It will be brand new in its entirely. 
You will not have to move anybody out. You will not have to go 
and build''--at that time they were talking about, as you 
remember, building a new building to house the people, and they 
were going to--and they were actually thinking about then 
ripping the building down, so that is a real beauty. But they 
do not know what they are doing, so here I am.
    Senator Coburn. So if the United Nations decides to go 
ahead on the track that they are going now, and go out for a 
$1.2 billion contract, you going to go get that business?
    Mr. Trump. No, I am not going to get it. First of all, they 
do not know what they want. They do not know what they have. 
They have no idea what they are doing. It is a problem where 
you cannot bid on a job like that. And I would not bid on it 
anyway. I offered my services free. I wanted to save close to a 
billion dollars, actually $1.1 billion at the time. I wanted to 
save a billion dollars for the United Nations, for the world, 
in a sense. I wanted to do it. I liked doing the Wollman 
Skating Rink. I mean this is a bigger version of the Wollman 
Skating Rink, that is all it is to me. And I said, ``I do not 
want a fee, I do not want anything.'' They did not like the 
idea.
    Now, the Senator would have his own reasons. He is stronger 
on it than me, but they did not want the idea.
    Senator Coburn. Are you surprised, Senator, about that?
    Mr. Golden. No. I think that would be a good location, and 
I spoke in jest, and I apologize for the jest, but I think the 
downtown Manhattan would be a good site or where it presently 
is, and I think you could do an outstanding job. Anybody could, 
as long as you have accountability and you have real 
transparency, and you have real bids going on and real people 
managing these projects.
    Mr. Trump. I think that is not going to happen. I think it 
is a very interesting idea, but I think it is not going to 
happen. I love the idea of the downtown switch. Sell the land. 
You will make such a fortune on the land, etc. It is not going 
to happen from a practical standpoint. It should happen, but it 
is not going to happen. But just in terms of the renovation 
itself, you have to get the right architect. I mean there are 
architects and there are architects. You have to get the right 
architect, and you have to know who those architects are. I 
mean I can only think of five architects who would do a great 
job on this building. You have to know who the architects are. 
You have to get your plan started. You have to do it as a 
renovation, and the renovation should be done quickly, 
effectively, and in my opinion, by the end of 2007, this whole 
job should be complete. It can be started immediately because 
of the fact that you are doing it the way I am saying. Within 3 
to 4 months of planning, you can start your contracts without 
extras. In other words, you can start what I call hard 
contracts, contracts without fluff and without extras.
    I think the entire job can be done by the end of 2007. I 
promise you, Senator, they will not even have the people moved 
out by 2007.
    Senator Coburn. One little follow up. They gave us $1.2 
billion, $482 million going to labor and materials, and $471 
million set up for contingency and professional fees.
    Mr. Trump. Nobody has ever heard of such a number.
    Senator Coburn. In your experience, when you plan a 
project, what do you figure for contingencies, the whole thing, 
the cost overrun, liability, the whole works, what do you 
figure?
    Mr. Trump. Their contingency number was what, $400 and some 
odd million?
    Senator Coburn. Yes, $471 million.
    Mr. Trump. Craziest number I have ever heard. My building 
in Chicago is $600 million. I believe we have a $30 million 
contingency, and of the $30 million, if I use any more than $3 
or $4 million, I am going to be very angry at my people. That 
is a 92-story building. I have a $30 million contingency, and I 
do not expect to use it. I set aside $30 million. I expect that 
if I use more than $3 million, I am going to be a very unhappy 
camper. To have a $400 and some odd million contingency is 
totally unheard of.
    Senator Coburn. Thank you. Senator Dayton.
    Senator Dayton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Well, you build good buildings, Mr. Trump.
    Mr. Trump. Thank you.
    Senator Dayton. I go to Napoleon's.
    Mr. Trump. Very good.
    Senator Dayton. When can you start? [Laughter.]
    Mr. Trump. I would like to do--it was amazing. The Swedish 
Ambassador just piqued my attention, and he should get a lot of 
the credit for this. I mean his letter is here. It is such a 
beautifully written letter, and it is written by a man--I do 
not even know him--it is written by a man of great common 
sense.
    Senator Dayton. And you met with the Secretary General 4 
years ago?
    Mr. Trump. Four years ago.
    Senator Dayton. And I see here the United Nations General 
Assembly Capital Plan I referred to before is dated June 2000. 
So I mean this project now on 5 years is going nowhere.
    Mr. Trump. Right. I could have built it twice.
    Senator Dayton. How does the United Nations, or how does 
whoever it is, the lender if we are going to be the lender, how 
do you regain control of the project? Do you start with a 
developer?
    Mr. Trump. Well, actually, Mr. Burnham said, ``I would like 
to call you tomorrow,'' and I thought that was terrific. 
Honestly, I thought that was terrific. This is what I do. This 
is what I do the best. And I am in New York. And as the Senator 
said, Senator Sessions, New York is a tough place to do 
business. You know, I have had great success, and sometimes you 
take your lumps. You have to know the contractors. I know ever 
contractor in New York. I know the ones that are going to--I am 
not going to say the words, there is too many wonderful women 
in the room--but I know the contractors that are going to, 
``take advantage of you. I know the contractors that are slow. 
I know the contractors that are fabulous, that do not ask for 
extras. I know all of them. I know the good ones and the bad 
ones.''
    I told a friend the other day--he was doing his apartment, 
he told me the contractor--I said, ``Do not use them.'' This 
was about a year ago. He got killed by this guy. He got killed. 
I said, ``Use somebody else.'' He came to me the other day, he 
said, ``I should have taken your advice.''
    The United Nations people do not know. We have major slime 
in New York, and much of that is in the form of contractors. Is 
that not a sad thing to say? And every one of them, I guarantee 
you, will find their way to the United Nations. [Laughter.]
    Senator Dayton. When would you like to take over rebuilding 
the Visitors Center and a few other projects?
    Mr. Trump. That is true, you have had your own difficulties 
with that.
    Senator Dayton. We have. But it shows the difference 
between someone who knows what he is doing and people who do 
not. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Trump. Thank you, sir.
    Senator Coburn. Senator Sessions.
    Senator Sessions. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for 
caring enough about the American taxpayers' money to have this 
hearing, and I think you have got something planned. Mr. Trump 
is a breath of fresh air for this Senate. And it ought to 
embarrass all of us because all of us have oversight committees 
that are not doing a very good job, and if we could save $1 
million, Mr. Trump, that is a million dollars that can be used 
for good cause, and I think there is a potential to save a lot 
more than that.
    You have given us a tutorial on reconstruction and 
renovation and construction in big projects. I hope people were 
listening, and I think the main point is you have got to know 
what you are doing in this city and this kind of construction 
project or you can be taken to the cleaners. Your contributions 
are going to help us save money, and I believe help us have a 
better U.N. building, and you would not have said that if you 
did not believe in the institution and want it to be better, 
and want it to have the best building it can and the best 
balance sheet it can.
    So I just want to thank you for it, and we will note that 
you said it could be completed by 2007. The plans are at this 
date to begin moving people out by June 2007. So once again, we 
have longer time frames and more costs. Again, I want to thank 
you for your courage, your willingness to speak out on an issue 
that a lot of people would have avoided, but you brought your 
expertise to bear and I believe it will help the U.N. do a 
better job.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr. Trump. Thank you, sir.
    Senator Coburn. Mr. Trump, if someone in your organization 
paid twice the amount for a project than it should have cost, 
in two words or less, what would you say?
    Mr. Trump. You're fired. [Laughter.]
    Senator Coburn. We are dismissed.
    [Whereupon, at 4:42 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]