The family claims this confrontation springs out of their use of federal lands, a historic custom GRANTED by the BLM, from which the POLICY of the BLM to claim more and more land has forced ranchers adjacent to them to abandon their private farms and ranches as their own people carried out the policies created. In fact burning the land surface, the CRIME for which the 2 Hammond men (one of whom is 74) has already served 3 months and one year respectively for is a common practice I see around here ALL THE TIME on what I assumed to be the private land of the burners. I certainly burn brush in our constructed pits, but I don’t have a ranch or farm. Full disclosure I live in a RURAL PLACE.
The govt claims the brush fires (which spread from the Hammond’s land to federal lands ..no one injured) were actually a crime to cover up the killing of deer. Poaching deer. Why does this crime sound familiar?
The problem now seems to fall into two categories.
1) Federal judges decided that the original sentences were too light for federal guidelines (minimum sentencing) and now ordered both men to serve FIVE YEARS .. dudes even if the fire was to cover up poaching, TEN YEARS OF JAIL? The family and their lawyers say the charges were made under TERRORISM STATUTES, the govt denies this. SOMEONE IS LYING
2) BLM policy DOES seem to be to squeeze out private use as this family uses the federal land and people out west want these federal lands turned over to local control for local disposition
Now comes the ARMED Bundy ‘militia’ in the days before the Hammond men must report to serve their five years each, taking over part of the land in question, prepared to stay for ‘YEARS’.
The govt people and judges who got involved in RE SENTENCING the Hammond men should feel GREAT UNLIMITED SHAME as agents of excessive use of the kind of authority which causes people not to lose FAITH in the govt, but hate it.
I hear claims running back and forth over who supports what locally and have NO IDEA who is lying, because SOMEONE IS
Who are these people now?
Armed thugs?
Sam Adams and/or John Brown?
I don’t know (I live at the other end of the nation), but I do know this… if the govt has HALF A BRAIN they will DO NOTHING AGGRESSIVE, and find a policy way to TURN THE LAND TO LOCAL COUNTY CONTROL, and then find a procedural way to get those Hammond men released after a VERY token stay.
BE CREATIVE AND OUT OF THE BOX, and demonstrate the govt has the people’s interest at heart, NOT ITS OWN AUTHORITY.
OTHERWISE this incident and whatever the aftermath is, will turn out to be just the beginning of massive erosion of the authority of the federal govt, and an ENMITY of the highest order between the people tasked to enforce federal policy and local citizens.
The federal govt cannot win such an engagement even if it ‘wins’ and imprisons everyone involved.
Instead of just taking over, the ‘militia’ at the wildlife preserve should have been ‘armed’ with dozens of high end drones flying GoPro cams so the world can see what’s going on when the news media (WHICH FAILED TO ALERT US ALL TO THIS BEFORE IT GOT TO THIS POINT) leave.
15 comments:
WTH is going on out there?
I keep asking that question and finally asked at FB. Here are the responses I got:
1. The so-called militia that has taken over the property is not local militia, they are what is referred to as foreigners. Meaning they are militia members outside of the state of Oregon. Those who understand the true meaning of militia are on the scene but are very concerned about the situation because those acting like the militia are not representing the cause well at all.
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2. From my understanding talking to the friends who were on scene, the frustration is the overreach of the federal government. The militia that is on the scene is not a representation of what is called the 3%, or oath keepers. However there are oath keepers who are at the scene, most of them are constitutional lawyers or have taken an Oath on the Constitution. For many people who are new to this news this would be very confusing, and dangerous in their eyes. This is that thin red line between the federal government and the American rancher. There is a large majority of western farmers and ranchers that are being pushed to extinction by the Bureau of land management. What I am worried about is another type of Waco event. I'm not sure if I clarified the issue, maybe I may have heated up a little bit. Basically it comes down to this if you're a purist when it comes to the constitution you know what side you're on. However if you believe in big government you know what side you're on. I believe this is another example of why we must read educate ourselves about our Constitution. We are given in alienable rights that we get from God not man, our federal government has forgotten that. Do I believe that taking a federal facility is the right step? No, I do not believe that is the right thing to do. However, I'm not sure if there was anything else they could do.
BTW this goes back to MY 2 americas meme, it's not rich poor/ black white/ or any crap like that.
It's URBAN VALUES VS RURAL VALUES
The ranchers at the center of this sequence of events have requested the "militia" stand down and are adamant that they in no way support their actions. They want the injustice done to them to resolved through the existing legal system.
What the ranchers need is for good folks to get the facts and circumstances of their situation out to the public, which the Obama media will never do.
The occupiers of the wildlife refuge have co-opted the events for their own purposes. They are looking for some kind of showdown and their actions will likely prove detrimental to the cause of liberty and property, perhaps seriously.
They have created an event that plays right into the hands of gun grabber Obama and his shameless media. They will not let this "crisis" go to waste.
That said the federals should understand that there will be no more free Wacos, regardless.
We had an anonymous commenter yesterday - on the other thread - who noted that it sure is convenient that the news is dominated by a "militia" of "right wing wackos" the day before Obama's anti-gun incursion begins.
Well, here we are at the day itself.
What will happen?
To be more clear, these non-3 percenters, who are they? What do they hope to accomplish?
Are they Obama plants of some sort?
Epa,
URBAN VALUES VS RURAL VALUES
I agree.
And the urbans hold the political power via the electorate and other means.
Pasto,
Could they be Obama plants?
I doubt that.
But the timing of this could have been manipulated by the feds, who knew full well in advance that Bundy et al would show up. Eazy peazy because all legal avenues of redress had been pursued previously -- to no avail. So I heard on the morning news, anyway, when Ammon Bundy was interviewed live on CBS.
Note that the Hammonds are scheduled to report to jail today.
Addendum: We are living in Orwellian times -- and the political elites are pulling the strings.
Plants? NO
Bit Obama, IMHO< knows the natural outcome of the progression of govt expansion of power within the executive.
People with power far away from the people who live their lives have LOST hold of the rope that ties us all together, and will respond to challenges to their authority in only one way.
HUMAN NATURE
Yes, thank you. Your explanations are much more reasonable.
This is not a native kind of issue to me. I do not understand stuff like this as it happens. i need it explained to me.
I am very much an Urban person, not Rural.
Epa notes the Urban vs. Rural distinction. I think he is right in that. Thing is, the Rural is embedded in America, but it is dying. And yet it is the Rural from which our self-reliance, our individual impulse, emanates.
What will be do if that disappears?
We can not allow that. We need to define it anew somehow.
Wasn't this a fundamental distinction in early America as well? Wasn't it called the Hamiltonian vs. Jeffersonian perspectives?
Are there political opportunistic plants involved? Perhaps if one considers infamous 'stolen valor' characters like these:
via ThisAin'tHell: Phonies occupy BLM building in Oregon
Some of our old phony friends are stinking up a Federal Building in Burns, Oregon in protest of the return to jail of Dwight and Steven Hammond, father and son ranchers, accused of setting a forest fire more than a decade ago.
Ryan Payne, one of the leaders from the Bundy stand-off who claimed that he was a Ranger is there. Payne was not a Ranger by any measure of the word, but, I guess militia folks don’t care about veracity.
Also, Blaine Cooper, the fellow who ditched his Delayed Entry Program enlistment for the Marine Corps is there. He couldn’t find the time to honor his enlistment in the Marines, but he sure can find the money to wear all of the military finery;Are those knee pads, Blaine? What would you need those for? Me, personally, I’d find a warmer hat to wear, although the bush hat is cooler-looking than a pile cap. I can’t shake the feeling that these protests are nothing more than an opportunity for these folks to wear their Ranger Joe purchases in public and to strut around openly carrying their firearms.
By the way, if one considers the Hamiltonian vs. Jefferesonian visions, then I am a Rural type.
However, that just shows you how much the Rural impulse has disappeared from America, given that I am probably one of the examples of the strength of that impulse these days.
Epa obviously, with his wood-heating, is far more rural than I.
;-)
Anyway, as I say, this concept of free range grazing is not something I understand, as a city dweller.
I understand it intellectually, but it is not in my bones.
A bunch of guys with guns squatting in a federal shed will only play into the left's stereotypes, will only strengthen Obama's drive to dictatorial power.
A much better alternative would be adopting an unarmed, "Free-Mumia", style resistance on behalf of the jailed ranchers. Something moderate Americans will understand that won't be so easily exploitable by evil leftisits.
BTW: This time next year Obama will pardon Mumia. Bet on it.
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