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Governments are instituted among Men,
deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,
it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,
and to institute new Government

Sunday, December 10, 2017

Trump Stepping Over The Line?

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posted by Pastorius at permanent link#


Anonymous thelastenglishprince said...

Professional journalism gives the right to report out a story based on facts. This should be an honor and a carefully guarded skill set.

The reporter who propagates a lie and creates a narrative is certainly within his right to do so. The reader, or the one slandered,also retains a right to expose the lie.

I doubt the reporter will lose his job. Trump is just trying to clean up the press corps and yes, they should adhere to standards. I would not be able to look in the mirror if I wrote in a manner trying to sucker people into believing a lie. I don't care if it is just a Twitter feed snipe. The image and comment were meant to propagate a lie.

Sunday, December 10, 2017 3:28:00 pm  
Blogger Pete Rowe said...

Intentional lies do not enjoy 1st Amendment protection.

Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:34:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

You write - Professional journalism gives the right to report out a story based on facts. This should be an honor and a carefully guarded skill set.

I respond - I absolutely do not agree. Who determines what is and is not a fact?

Fact Check?


We already see the very obvious cracks in this argument. We are inundated with the problem all the time.

The Leftist media (Government-Media/Academia Complex) believe THEY should control the determination of what is and is not a fact.

They have been scientifically proven to be wrong. That is to say, they get it wrong often enough that we can determine through the application of the scientific method that they are not to be trusted in the determination of what is and is not a fact.

And frankly, there are just as many fake news people on the right.

Much of what we call Fake News is probably Intelligence community-hatched propaganda, or disinformation.

Everyone should write and read with the knowledge that they do not corner the market on truth.

Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:36:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Pete, Trump can sue for Fraud, but as President, he should not call for a man to be fired over a contention of fact vs. falsehood.

Trump does not know if the guy did it on purpose or not.

Journalist need to be allowed to make mistakes. You can not make mistakes illegal, or no one will be able to practice their profession.

Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:37:00 pm  
Blogger Pete Rowe said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:23:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

So then, there is reason to believe it was not a mistake?

Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:46:00 pm  
Blogger Pete Rowe said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:55:00 pm  
Blogger Pete Rowe said...

I was wrong. He resigned after it was discovered that he posted several messages on JournoList that disparaged Republicans. As for intentional or unintentional mistake, don't you think the guy new the pics of the empty venue were taken well before the rally started and long before Trump arrived?

Sunday, December 10, 2017 6:06:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Yeah, I do think that, based upon repeated experience that these people are willing to go to any lengths to publish a lie as truth.

But that is not how it works in Science, or a court of law.

The pattern of behavior is repeated, yes, but not always consistently by exactly the same people.

This is a decentralized intifada against the people, and it is very difficult to prove culpability, except that, in many cases, they do in fact state their intent to put out lies and propaganda.

Sunday, December 10, 2017 6:37:00 pm  
Blogger Pete Rowe said...

If Trump just would have publicly exposed him and the lie and the reporter been fired as a result, is that a First Amendment problem or just a normal market response?

Sunday, December 10, 2017 7:21:00 pm  
Anonymous thelastenglishprince said...

Enjoying reading the comments.

Freedom of expression? It must not be abridged within the public square. Yet while my blood bleeds patriotic red for my nation, I also know that my personal opinion and bias cannot be allowed to hemorrhage over into the place of my own employment. At that point, I am under the sponsorship of another - and their allowances - are my guide. The journalist in question was being paid for one thing: credible, ethical, honest reporting. He failed on all three counts.

A journalist must endeavor to platform based on verified and properly vetted facts. The other day, I struggled with the same when writing an article for an international military journal. It involved time-line. I had to choose between highlighting the authorship for a concept, or who was the seated President when Congress responded with a legally recognized action to put a concept into play. This struggle to choose how to platform the thought involved years of time lapse between the events, not hours of time. Yet is was important to me to highlight the President most deserving of mention.

In the case of the image posted on Twitter (called out by the POTUS) I am reminded of the words of a wise man who was a commentary reporter in his own right:

Ecclesiastes 7:8

Too many bombshells that turn out to be duds lately because of an impatience to deliver breaking news as opposed to sitting back and patiently seeing how a story develops in three dimensional manner.

Metatarsal reporting. That is what I am sick of - being thrown a small and inconsequential bone and having it presented as a full-framed and robust report.

Sunday, December 10, 2017 8:36:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

I think it is not a violation of the First Amendment for the President to call for the man to be fired. I think it is a violation of the SPIRIT of the First Amendment.

I think if Trump had simply expressed his opinion that the photographer was wrong, and had asserted that opinion with evidence, that is fine. If the paper wants to fire the guy, as they probably should, then that is fine. It has nothing to do with the First Amendment.

What do you think?

Monday, December 11, 2017 12:39:00 am  
Blogger Pete Rowe said...

Seems like a reasonable position. Trump has the bully pulpit. I think he should use it forcefully in situations like this, but should not call for individuals to be fired. His political adversaries and neutral parties do not work for him. The free market can decide on the facts and public opinion whether someone (journalists, NFL players, etc...) are worth keeping on the payroll. We don't need the government's guidance to make personnel decisions like this one.

Monday, December 11, 2017 1:17:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...


Monday, December 11, 2017 4:16:00 am  
Blogger Always On Watch said...

Here is one serious flaw today in journalism, blogging, etc:

impatience to deliver breaking news (TLEP's words)

Compound the above with anything and everything the mainstream media's obsession with destroying Trump, and we see the formula for making more mistakes -- including "mistakes" of the dishonorable sort (aka outright lies).

Tuesday, December 12, 2017 1:31:00 am  

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