Snouck wrote me this morning and took me to task for having cited this post about our tactics in World War II, as an example of how to win a war. Snouck considered the post tantamount to calling for genocide.
It seems that I have made the error of not being clear and specific about my intentions in posting that article. So let me clarify, and hopefully with specificity. :)
I read that article as being specifically about how we won World War II. Of course, the purpose of the article is to point out that we are not using the real force of our military in our current struggles, and the implications is that this is why we are losing. I agree with this implication. For instance, when Moqtada al-Sadr and his gang were holed up in that Mosque in Ramallah, we should have hit the Mosque with however many missiles it would have taken to ensure that they were all dead.
Our reticence to use such force, and our bizarre PC-inspired prohibition against destroying a Mosque, even when war is being waged against us from the Mosque, is a clear example that we have lost the fighting spirit that won World War II.
Now, this is not to say that I believe we have to employ every tactic we used in World War II. I believe you fight the war which is in front of you, not the one that is buried in the past behing you. Thus far, in our current war, we have had no cause to use nuclear weapons, so I do not advocate nuking the Sunni Triangle or Teheran, or Damascus or any other city in the Islamic world.
I do buy the idea that in WWII, we were right to use nuclear weapons on Japan. In retrospect it may seem a foolish decision, but at the time it seemed the correct decision. The reason I think it was correct to use nukes, given what we knew then, is because we were facing a war with millions of casualties on mainland Japan. The way we went about winning only produced a couple hundred thousand casualties.
I think that after having used nukes, we came to understand the devastating consequences of such weapons. I don't think we really understood then. I don't mean simply the consequences of radiation. I mean the fact that we could quite literally kill almost every single living thing on Earth using such weapons.
I do not buy the idea that in a post-WWII world that we should use nuclear weapons for anything other than retaliation against the use of nukes against our country, or for the use of a bio-weapon (such as smallpox) against our country.
In other words, if hundreds of thousands of Americans die as the result of the use of one of these weapons, then I believe we would be justified to retaliate in kind. (Now, that does not mean I think we should use bio-weapons against another country. Bio-weapons are too uncontrolled. Nukes are somewhat more controllable.)
And, I do think the way to go about using nukes is to give ultimatums.
For instance, if Al Qaeda, or any shadowy terrorist organization, uses a nuke on us, it is not because they built a nuke. It is because either Pakistan, NoKo, Iran, Russia, or China provided them with a nuke. Therefore, those would be the countries we should focus on, if we were to be hit with a nuke.
Bio-weapons are, I imagine, much harder to trace.
I honestly don't know how we could respond in the case of the unleashing of a bio-weapon on the U.S.
By the way, I can't imagine that we would ever go head to head with Russia or China in a nuclear war. The consequences of such a war could very likely be the utter anihilation of all life on Earth.
I understand perfectly well why Snouck criticized me. Perhaps, I should have clarified all this. I know that I have written against the use of nukes on numerous occasions. I have even opposed the use of nuclear bunker busters (and what some call "tactical battle-field nukes) even though theoretically they would kill very few people.
I am against the use of nukes such as these because no matter how controlled we make them, they are still nukes, and our using them would give other regimes license to use whatever kind of nukes they could create, which are not likely to be as controlled as something we possibly could create.
I hope I have made myself clear.
Now, let me also say that I do believe that the lesson of the aforementioned article is that the way to win a war is to beat your enemy, and then beat him some more, and beat him and beat and beat, until he is so terrified of you that he cries for mercy, and then, unfortunately, you must hit one more time, very hard, so that he never forgets how terrible it is to be engaged in battle with you. He must become convinced beyond all pride that he would surely have lost everything if he does not give up and follow orders in the aftermath of the war.
The United States has won three wars in which we employed this tactic, and in the aftermath of each of those three wars, the life of the enemy completely changed, and where there had previously been slavery and oppression, there was freedom, free markets, and growth.
The three wars I refer to are our own American Civil War, and the wars against Japan and Germany. In the American Civil War, our Northern troops had the South all but beaten, and THEN Sherman went on his scorched Earth march through Atlanta. This convinced the Southerners that if they did not completely surrender to the North, they would have lost everything they held dear.
Similarly, in the wars against Japan and Germany we delivered coup de grace blows in the final days of the war. In Germany, the British Air Force firebombed Dresden. And, of course, in Japan, we dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
That's how you win a war, from what I can tell. Let me know what you think. I would love to think it can be done in a nicer way that this. Look forward to hearing from y'all.
10 comments:
War is cruelty and you cannot refine it. The crueler it is, the sooner it is over.
All attempts to make war safe and easy will end in humiliation and defeat.
We have not been ready as a nation to recognize Sherman's ROE, and it's casualty saving ethos
The use of nukes in Japan was mandatory and they had to be used against a civilian target given the Japanese intransigence (I’d argue this but it would take too many paragraphs.) I’m not comfortable with the example of Sherman’s march.
However, I agree that the point is our inability to fight as we fought in the past. Nuclear weapons aren’t needed but we do need to take of the PC handcuffs.
The ability to fight each enemy in the manner appropriate to the particular enemy goes back to the founding father of “just war” theory: Cicero -- the great Roman statesman, orator, and philosopher. He was widely read by our nation's founders.
You asked for opinions, and here is mine:
The ONLY way to lasting peace is the TOTAL destruction, vaporization, annihilation desintegration of the "Religion of Pigs". It is willfull suicide to see Muzzies as human beings - they are INHUMAN beings. Being a Muzzie is the greatest crime against mankind in all of history, and why the f**kin' h*ll should we risk our freedom, prosperity and lives plus the survival of civilization itself by sparing any of these insane death-culters?
When you detect an extremely malign cancerous tumor, what do you do? You surgically remove THE WHOLE of it from your body or you DIE.
We "only" need to get our act together and get rid of Muzzie-loving halal cowboys like Bush and defaitist eunuch dhimmis like the rulers in Europe. We have more than enough firepower to blast the whole satanic Muzzie hell-world FORWARD to the stone age and at the same time round up the invaders in all infidel countries for some cozy bonfires.
I WILL NOT DIE AS A SLAVE!!!
Jason,
I would be interested in hearing why you think Sherman's tactics were not needed, or went too far, or whatever it is you think.
I'd have to review and re-read Civil War history to say anything more coherent.
Today I’m furious at how our troops are held back by the PC mentality given the nature of the enemy that we are fighting. The savagery exhibited by this enemy is as barbaric as they come. And it is widely accepted. This shahid that deliberately kills young Israelis in a pizza parlor is glorified in Egypt, which is supposed to be one of the most moderate and cosmopolitan Arab societies. The deliberate firing or rockets into Israeli population centers (from Iranian operatives in southern Lebanon) is accepted with no reservations through out the Islamic world.
There is a wide-spread belief that after losing several conventional wars to Western forces, that Muslims have found a way to fight that is effective because we won’t resort to similar methods in return. They are proud of the suicide bombers. Bin Laden (and before him Arafat) is one of the most admired Muslims in the Islamic world as the yearly Pew Research Center discovers in their surveys.
It’s clear that we aren’t fighting “Southern Gentlemen” who share our cultural history and are likely to rejoin our nation after the war.
Now, I don’t go so far as saying that they are as committed to a barbaric warrior path as Japan was -- at least not yet. I think most can still abandon the complete descent into savagery despite their expression of acceptance of such barbaric practices when their fellow religionists employ them. But only if we show the consequences of the path they are currently taking. We have to take the kid gloves off. If it is clear we can and will fight with the utmost force, we will be able to establish a deterrent that discourages them from acting according to their philosophy and inclinations.
But before we can do that our fellow citizens have to understand the nature of the enemy that we are fighting. Without that knowledge there will be no resolve; and without resolve we will pull back too soon to be credible.
Jason,
I certainly am no expert on the history of the Civil War. So, what do I know?
Sherman took 65,000 picked men, and set out to "chase them into their innermost recesses so that they may begin to know dread". He covered more ground, and by acre, per capita, ANY WAY you want to measure had and caused fewer casualties than anyone else in any campaign. He did this while Grant fought it out from the Wilderness, on the Anna, at Cold Harbor and finally to Petersburg with hundreds of thousands of casualties.
Sherman on reaching Savannah turned north and marched thru South Carolina, and North Carolina nearly driving Johnston's last confederate army clear into Grant.
He broke the will of the south causing significant material damage, but spared lives thru his 'cruelty'.
There is simply only one way to make war. Bringing damage to the enemy must be limited ONLY by your ability to deliver it. If you hold yourself back from this, your are not committed to the fight, and you MUST lose.
Thus Fallujah should have looked like Richmond of 1865 or Berlin of 1945.
Epa,
You say that the damage we bring to the enemy must be limited only by our ability to bring it. But surely you wouldn't advocate starting off with nukes. I mean, we could simply nuke all the belligerent countries in the ME, but you wouldn't suggest we do it, would you?
Well, if I can jump in, it is precisely because we just can't nuke all our enemies (if we want to live with ourselves afterwards and stop our own society from ripping itself apart over blame for the genocide) that we are in the present mess. Once everyone recognizes that we have to make a somewhat arbitrary decision of how much force to use, wherever we pull up short of using our total force available, we leave ourselves open to criticism of our judgment about what was a reasonal, "proportional", level of force.
In other words, we have entered a domain of moral blackmail. And the only way to deal with blackmail is to refuse it, intelligently. Instead of acting so as to justify fears that we need to be controlled lest we use too much force, we need to build up our ability to show that these fears are unfounded and that they themselves lead to never-ending conflicts, not peace. We have to show that intelligent use of violence is not the road to genocide, but a way of controlling conflicts before they get to the point where such hysterical solutions are sought.
We cannot refuse the ethical and cultural challenge that the present conflict poses. We must develop a policy and a rhetoric that justifies the use of force, not as a way of wiping all the other people from the face of the earth, but of forcing tyrants and terrorists and fanatics either to accept responsibility for engaging in acceptable forms of reciprocity with ourselves and with the many they oppress in in their own societies, or to die. We must use violence as part of a strategy to gain the moral upper hand, asking not what kind of response is proportional to an attack on us, but how much violence is necessary to force some minimally acceptable level of engagement and reciprocity between various parties in rivalry. But until a majority in our societies have clearly refused the moral blackmail of our victimary elites, and their version of international law, we cannot win this struggle. That is our primary task as bloggers - to show the evil consequences of the moral blackmail; and we may have to keep hitting away at this one until we are geriatrics because dropping the nukes really would destroy our own society.
Thus Fallujah should have looked like Richmond of 1865 or Berlin of 1945.
I agree. Had we done this we would have killed the jihadi and avoided a large number of attacks in the next two years that killed many of our fine men and women; and perhaps we would have avoided the attacks on moderates that drove them from Iraq into Jordan. It would have certainly set other tribes on noticed that they had better fear us more than the jihadi and Baathist remnants.
I agree with truepeers that we have to wage an intellectual battle against those who impose arbitrary rules to weaken our ability to fight. The best way to do this is to use history as an example. I’ve read-up on the war with Japan and a few other examples. Each enemy is different but we can draw some conclusions. At no time in history have we gone to war praising the enemy’s ideology, construct model societies at the start of the war, and grovel to win the enemy’s affections. In every war the more civilized side holds off on some of the more odious methods of fighting but as it is clear the enemy’s savagery knows no bounds, rules are altered to suit the battle.
War is not a tennis match where it’s “how you play that matters” … winning is all that matters. Discipline and principles help make our military the awesome force it is … when they are sane rules and practices. But deontological constraints that appeal to the moral vanity of the chattering class (i.e. PC bullshit) only help the enemy.
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