UPDATE AT BOTTOM
It's true.
The ruthlessness displayed towards domestic political opposition is aimed at those this president believes tinged with evil and the incredibly weak face displayed overseas is the product of naive belief in the goodness of man and the faults of our system which has suppressed them overseas.
I just can't think of any other explanation.
You can read it all, and make up your own minds about whether or not this is torture, the means were effective, yadda.Interrogation Memos Detail Harsh Tactics by the C.I.A.
In dozens of pages of dispassionate legal prose, the methods approved by the Bush administration for extracting information from senior operatives of Al Qaeda are spelled out in careful detail -- like keeping detainees awake for up to 11 straight days, placing them in a dark, cramped box or putting insects into the box to exploit their fears.
But I find it unbelievable that this would be released in the middle of a war except for two things.
This leader and the people who voted for him don't believe there is a war (overseas contingency operation against man caused disasters..another ringing phrase ..measure that against the threat brought to mind's eye by RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS)
This leader and the people who voted for him are anxious to prove to the world how different he is from the previous admin, and are unmindful of the results of this.
Results which surely are to enlighten Al Qaeda, Hizballah and if needs be HAMAS as to the limits we will reach, and to teach PRECISELY how to resist the techniques so 'wonderfully' detailed in this report
READ IT ALL
UPDATE:The release of the documents came after a bitter debate that divided the Obama administration, with the C.I.A. opposing the Justice Department's proposal to air the details of the agency's long-secret program. Fueling the urgency of the discussion was Thursday's court deadline in a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, which had sued the government for the release of the Justice Department memos.
Together, the four memos give an extraordinarily detailed account of the C.I.A.'s methods and the Justice Department's long struggle, in the face of graphic descriptions of brutal tactics, to square them with international and domestic law. Passages describing forced nudity, the slamming of detainees into walls (which turns out to be a soft wall rigged make a loud noice, and to prevent whiplash), prolonged sleep deprivation (which always ends if the subject shows any sign of hallucination) and the dousing of detainees with water as cold as 41 degrees (which is warmer than the water I go into with a bad heart to get the dock and boat in and out of the water in spring and fall ...this weekend actually and I am LOOKING FORWARD TO DOING IT) alternate with elaborate legal arguments concerning the international Convention Against Torture.
A former top official in the administration of President George W. Bush called the publication of the memos “unbelievable.”
“It's damaging because these are techniques that work, and by Obama's action today, we are telling the terrorists what they are,” the official said. “We have laid it all out for our enemies. This is totally unnecessary. … Publicizing the techniques does grave damage to our national security by ensuring they can never be used again — even in a ticking-time- bomb scenario where thousands or even millions of American lives are at stake."
“I don't believe Obama would intentionally endanger the nation, so it must be that he thinks either 1. the previous administration, including the CIA professionals who have defended this program, is lying about its importance and effectiveness, or 2. he believes we are no longer really at war and no longer face the kind of grave threat to our national security this program has protected against.”
Obama did not act on an arbitrary timeline. There was a deadline in a court case with the ACLU on Thursday. It had been extended, but the ACLU was not going to agree to another.
The memos can be read here, here, here and here.
12 comments:
Remember when you stayed up so long for finals that when you finally went to bed you started dreaming before you fell asleep?
I guess REM happens whether or not you are awake. It takes about 48 hours of sleep deprivation for that to happen, in my experience. Always did it with lots of caffeine, so don't know if it would happen earlier without it.
And, I took many a really cold shower (following up on the two pots of coffee) before my finals to stay awake.
I get it - these guys are really just studying for calculus tests!!
Now THAT would be torture: triple integrals and Laplace transforms before you get any more food, buster.
Or, maybe they are just going through SEAL training hazing. OR both - you must solve this partial differential equation while swimming underwater for a mile with no oxygen, and rescue the hostage by hand-to-hand combat. While getting stung by a jellyfish. (Which really does hurt!)
THEN you can have dinner. And meat tenderizer for the that nasty jellyfish sting. . .
Sorry to be flip, but this is getting crazier by the day.
This Man Will Get Us All Killed.
This is borderline treason in my opinion. My contempt for our president grows by each decision he makes. This release of this memo was entirely uncalled for and only endangers America's security. Not to mention that this report completely jeopardizes the security of the brave Americans (and that of their families) who do the jobs nobody else wants to do in order protect this country from another 9/11. Who would actually want to work in the CIA with a squeeling president like this?
Send those pictures to Obama, Shiva.
Not very nice pix, but they are according to al qaeda torture methods.
Just google al qaeda torture methods.
And we are going to be labeled right wing extremists for pointing out these little facts
Good God, Shiva, there goes my lunch. Your blog has the most poignant message of all regarding the horrors and barbarity of Islam.
No point sending them to Obama. He doesn't give a flying fuck. What makes anyone think that man does not want to harm this country? There is just so far you can go with "naive" or "means well" as an excuse.
Send that one with the face removed to CNN and dare the bastards to air that next to their fucking "torture" stories. Oh by the way, here's how they do it in The Religion of Peace. Since our CIA can't use waterboarding/sleep deprivation/scary bugs/bitchslapping anymore, would you liberal twats prefer that they switched to "devout Islamic" methods instead?
If you find a shoe in there that fits, Janet, wear it with my compliments.
Revere, I'm surprised at you. I'd have thought you'd want to plant that shoe swiftly and hard up their collective ass.
Much better idea. With 4-inch spike heels.
Northeast Intelligence Network has started what promises to be an interesting series on the Islamic connections to the Oklahoma City bombing. For some reason I can never get their posts to link, but it's at http://homelandsecurityus/com/
That post is preceded by a rather insightful one on sorting out valid information from "conspiracy theories".
Forced nudity, the slamming of detainees into walls, prolonged sleep deprivation, waterboarding and the dousing of detainees with water as cold as 41 degrees, is not torture, they do not cross the line into the realm of sadism, which is the main motivation for torture.
The above techniques are no more than enhanced interrogation
The problems start when enhanced interrogation is left in the hands of thugs.
Enhanced Interrogation should only be carried out by people with years of training in Psychiatry Psychology (Hans Jurgen Eysenck) and an understanding of the human aura, and know when the interrogated is lying.
Enhanced Interrogation, should not be abandoned because of weak minded pussies/leftards who do not know the difference Enhanced interrogation and torture.
Torture is not pleasant, and this is why the islamists cry torture, because most people will imagine the worst, and start comparing our Intelligence Services to other brutal regimes, that dont blink an eye when their victims are stripped of there skin and flesh right to the bone.
If surfers can willingly face a rip curl daily for kicks then I have no problem that a potential mass murder is subjected to a mild water board if saving life is the object.
Also if small kids from my co-partners village (moslem) can horse play with my rottweilers, then I have no problem that dogs are present at Interrogations.
If these mass murderous moslems have no problem in slitting the throats of animals and humans and letting them slowly bleed to death, then I have no problem in feeding them pork, and if they do not like it, let them chose to become martyrs the slow way and starve to death, its their choice.
Unfortunately mostly all people who have used torture through outhistory have not been interrogators, but perverted sadists, where causing pain has been the priority, and getting the truth was not their goal.
What should be looked into is how are the interrogated being treated, they can not be treated as criminals, as a criminal is aware that they are doing wrong, and this will reflect in their behavior under interrogation, where as a moslem he is doing right, so his behavior is very difficult to read, if not impossible. There fore the question arises, is it a good idea to take prisoners, better to finish them off.
One thing I heard on one of the shows this evening (sorry, forgot which one) was that our allies would be much less likely in the future to share intel with us, not knowing if we would disclose it.
THAT sent chills up my spine, because electing a more "traditional", if you will, Pres. next time in will NOT change the reluctance of our allies to help us.
Because who knows who we'll elect the next time?
This is really long-term damage.
Ro
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