Who are you
The two factions stood on opposite sides of Piccadilly Gardens, separated by a heavy police line, with officers dressed in riot gear and on horseback.
Police imposed a lockdown around the area where an estimated 2,000 protesters gathered.
A UAF protester shouted through a megaphone: "There's many more of us than you," and the crowd sang out: "Who are you"
The above is ripped from the UAF site
WHO ARE YOU
Look at this picture and compare with hundreds of other pictures of the EDL demos,
Doesn't it strike you as being rather odd with the way he is dressed compared to all the
demostrators ?
WHO ARE YOU
Is he Sieg hailing the police or UAF as an insult ?
Now why is this guy hiding his face ?
WHO ARE YOU
The next three photos are very interesting because it is of the same guy in three different locations, and he is attempting to cover his face.
In the first photo he is in a crowd, and his salute is rather timid,Could this be because he does not want to attract much attention from the people around him
Here is again
He has his arm in the air but it is not a nazi salute
Now here is the give away
The guy is away from the crowd and attention ,so he can pose with a full blown salute
Mission Accomplished
UAF/Searchlight now have evidence
From the recent EDL demos involving several thousand anti islamization football hooligans we see fotos of three idiots giving the nazi salute all over the web and press
Here is what they dont want us to see
What we have not seen much of
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One of the reasons these guys are prepared to fight is they do not like moslems coming to the West and fucking things up for their kids such as Christmas celebrations
Great on them
Shame on all you Cyber Anti - Jihadis who whine on blogs and forums about islam at the same time denounce people who are literally taking the fight to islam
I say direct out, fuck all the big talk by all the gun toting cyber anti - jihadis while hiding behind the computers
The EDL, SIOE, The casuals, The BNP, and VB are not talking big about cock and load, and hiding behind their laptops with false names, they are going on the streets, not with guns, but with the courage of their convictions.
There maybe a lot of nasty guys within the EDL but most of them are fighting for the same values as the anti-jihad movement, what sets them apart is they have balls, where as the anti-jihad movement is proving itself to be not much more than a bunch of pussies.
27 comments:
LOL
You told us.
Course, you don't know who we are (and we don't know who you are either, for that matter). So, you have no idea whether we have balls or not.
Anyway, Shiva. Good post. Thanks.
If memory serves, shiva you have also defended the BNP, using the same logic. They are AS LEAST a mortal enemy to me and mine as any MB lunatic. Their Own History Says So
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Some more questions:
What are the "values" of the anti-jihad movement, and which of these values does the EDL support?
You say there are "mean guys" in the EDL; well, there's always mean guys in any human organization. Howe many mean guys are there, and how much influence do they have on the rest of the "nice" guys in the movement?
/IguanaDonna
Shiva,
I'm going to pose this question again, cuz you seem to be either absent or ignoring the other thread:
I have a personal question for you. Say you were actually living in the UK right now and the BNP gained power.
Where does that leave your wife and, if you had any, your kids?
The BNP would not allow your wife to be part of society? Does that not bother you?
Or, is your wife just a whore to you like wives are to Muslims?
I love what you bring to this blog, but it seems to me you gotta be consistent with your own life, my man.
Shiva is one of our best contributors. I don't want this thread to simply turn into a bash Shiva thread. But, I would appreciate it if he would answer these questions and we can all have a reasonable discussion.
Argumentation is the process of learning. Argumentation for the purpose of winning (my side vs. you side) is for intellectual bullies only, and does nothing to help.
So please Shiva, explain to us how we are wrong?
Shiva, it seems to me that the EDL has a good opportunity to speak up for freedom, by supporting Geert Wilders' entrance into Britain, on the grounds of freedom of speech. Do they support Wilders?
By the way, I will speak for Shiva in his absence. He posted the following on another thread:
Mr
Have you Listened to this crap
#1 The clips where put up by UAF supporters
#2 They are from File on Four BBC
#3 At 3:11 the program states that "Sharia, Sharia we don't want Sharia" is offensive
#4 The clip shows a total of five photos showing 3 different people raising their arm in a nazi salute
#5 At O:12, 0:20 and 0;45 we see the same person in three different location giving the stiff arm. Very very convenient to have a photographer around to capture these shots. It would be interesting to ahve access to these photos on flick r or photobucket to see if it was the same camera used for all three shots. Another give away is why is he the only person attempting to cover his face. The same goes for the guy at 1:15
#5 The photo at 1:54 is really out of place, no self respecting football hooligan would be seen dead in skin head gear.
#6 The UAF/Searchlight have a long history of placing infiltrators within the right wing, So I would not be surprised this is the case with these photos
#7 I could be wrong. But there is another aspect the photos where gathered from three demos involving more than a thousand "hooligans" Only three people caught on camera giving the salute
Thats 0.003% of the EDL folks on these demo, at some folks here are slamming down on EDL, which is very interesting as the same folks give pass to some-one who has made a racist speech in front vof several thousand fans far worse than a nazi salute or Nick Griffins Holu-hoax speech
The above Anonymouse was me, IguanaDonna.
I think Shiva's points in the comment above are reasonable and worthy of consideration.
Iguana Donna,
Shiva probably knows as little about the EDL as we do. Though he is an Englishman, he lives in Indonesia and has for quite some time.
I would like to give you my opinion on a couple of questions you asked. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.
You asked: ... is the EDL aware of its role in supporting, and coddling, Jihadis in Britain?
I say: I'm quite sure they are aware of that, because that is one of the primary topics the BNP-types address in the UK, and that is one of the reasons so many seemingly reasonable people are turning to the BNP and away from the Tories and the Labor parties.
Iguana Donna,
You asked: Do they support Wilders?
I say: I'm quite sure they are big supporters of Geert Wilders.
I like everything about Wilders, except for his call for a ban on the Krayon. I actually support such a call in the context in which he makes it, which is, "Hey, we ban Mein Kampf, why not the Krayon?"
However, banning books does not help anything ultimately. Truth is, we Infidels are informed about our enemy because we can read the Krayon.
Free Speech is good because it brings people out into the open.
The other strange thing about Wilders (and this is me an ignorant American talking) is it seems to me he supports The Netherlands stealing part of Belgium.
http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2009/05/wilders-and-dewinter-begin-to-join.html
I think of this as a call for War. Europeans have different ways of looking at these things that I simply do not understand.
Hmmmm, I wasn't aware of Wilders and the Netherlands/Belgium issue. European politics is sometimes very convoluted indeed. I don't understand it either.
As an American, I'm very much opposed to us Yanks getting mixed up in European affairs where we've nothing to gain.
Hopefully, the EDL is against the welfare state, which is a huge problem, and one which will need to be tackled before anything can be done about Islam. And, hopefully, they can come with a real plan, to get rid of it.
I support Geert Wilders coming to Britain on the grounds of freedom of speech. I despise Michael Savage, but I supported him for the same reason. It would be nice if the EDL could speak up about this, and about British hypocrisy in general, in keeping Wilders and Savage out while letting Islamic firebrands in.
Bottom line: maybe the EDL is okay; maybe they do support freedom of speech, maybe they are alright---but I want to really know this, not be shamed, or pressured, into supporting them blindly because, gosh darnitall, they're the only ones standing up for Britain! (If that's the truth, Britain's in deep trouble.) Especially, since, at this point, it seems to be all "maybes" and "I'm sure they does", with no definite answers.
/IguanaDonna
Jaco
No, I am not ignoring the other thread, It just that I have been out on my bike, a spreading a little infidel vibes
You ask a very valid question
Excuse me if I start of by answering with a question. Have you wondered why I do not live in England?
The answer to that is white on white racism from family, who now today oppose BNP.
Also, strange as it may seem, people here in Indonesia enjoy more personal freedom than most people in the UK do
If you went to live where your wife comes from you will find out what I mean.
Now about the BNP, I am not blind to there murky past, and that is why I only support them conditionally.
If I was in England and the BNP where the ruling party (which I doubt will happen in the near future) a lot would depend on what
policies they where following, if they follow their present policy I would not have too many problems, except the only ethnics ruling, and I would join the group within the BNP to bring pressure to change that ruling, which is happening today
If the BNP where to revert back to their old ways, then I would fight them tooth and nail.
Also I firmly believe that should the BNP revert to their devious past there would be a mass exodus and it would fall apart.
Unlike most here I do pop over to BNP site and leave critical comments and they have not been rejected. I have followed quite a lot of debates within their forum, and I am left with the impression that they are moving in the right direction
By the way, new membership to the BNP has now been frozen, while they adjust to the new ruling that is coming into force
The BNP will soon be open to all
Shiva,
My wife is from Mindanao. That is hell of Earth.
You probably know about it.
I'll answer the rest of your comment later.
IguanaDonna
Wow I did not say go out and fight along side EDL
I am basically saying quit slagging of people who have the balls to go out and face the dragon
Over the last few years I have seen so many cyber anti - jihadis slag of people who are taking the fight beyond blogging
Year in year out it is the same old story
"OOOh I dont want to get my hands dirty, they are nazis "
"OOOh they are going to harm our cause and give us a bad name"
"OOOh they are jumping on the anti - jihad wagon"
Well for your information The BNP where publishing anti-jihad posters and leaflet long before 9/11
Nick Griffin faced a & year jail sentenced for speaking out against islam at a meeting at Kieghly (Pakistani stronghold) concerning the grooming of schoolgirls
Philip De winters had his balls crushed by the police at a 9/11 rally (incidentally the anti-jihad hero Robert Spencer did not attend because the could find a suitable hotel)
But appeared a few weeks later. The rally was widely advertised months ahead, and only a handful of cyber anti-jihadis turned up
We have the attempted murder of Anders Grave by AFA thugs in Denmark
Now we have Anti- jihad bloggers bring critical of EDL and The Casuals
Over the years I have not seen many bloggers who have attempted to organize anything beyond blogging, in fact only one come to mind, "sonofwalker/Dag" and his blue scarf campaign
If people do not want to be associated with the likes of BNP EDL VB, then the should start to organize there own groups, not whine and groan about these shady people of high jacking the anti-jihad cause
Whether we agree with them or not we should not lose sight they contribute to making a much broader front against islamization.
Like it or not we are heading towards war, and in war we do not have much choice in who stands beside us in the trenches
Epa
Sorry I did not answer further up, I not so fast on the keyboard
Your memory serves you right I defended the BNP, using nearly the same logic.
This is because the issue is the same only the skurks have a different name
I know exactly your stand,
Now if I recall correctly you have not used unreliable sources to support your position
Same ol' same ol'.
/IguanaDonna.
Jaco
That is rather a complex question to answer.
Where my wife is concerned and living in England or anywhere in the West.
I think the demands on her to integrate would destroy her.
Have you ever stayed very long in Mindanao, if you have ,you surely must have notice how families and communities are far more closely knit.
Something that is lacking in the West
Who the fuck am I?
I am just a God Fearing Bible Thumping Gun Toting lock and load whack off jack off pussy sitting behind his computer all day diddlin' his dick and making no real contribution to anything but especially not to the counter jihad movement.
But maybe I should take the advice of other counter jihadis and hget up off my lazy fat fucking ass and go out and start some shit with the muslims. Maybe I'll start with that feller over at the Quick Mart he's muslim I know he is and even though he was upset and crying on 9/11 when I stopped in for cigaretes I know it was just a show and he's really a jihadi who is going to stab me in the back first chance he gets so first him then his wife and kids I certainly have enough .223 for them all then after that I'm going over to my favorite diner it's run by Syrians and you know what that means even though they claim they are Christians you and I both know that's just the taqiyya talkin' so they need to go too then I think I'll head to the nearest mosque maybe take some of my beer drinking lazy fat assed Bubba buddies from the gun club along start smashing windows slashing tires and mayve we'll get a movement all across America where this can happen and ALL the muslims will be gone sent back to where they came from or sent to Hell whichever they prefer every man woman child and baby of them goddamn sand niggers good for nothing attacked us on September 11 with the help of that piece of shit raghead Osama and his pals the Taliban get half their money from oil the other half from the opium business need to get rid of anybody who supports them like the oil executives who buy their oil and the drug dealers who sell their heroin poisoning our fine young white youth here and sending all that money back to Afghanistan and Iraw and Lebanon where the Taliban use it to get stronger grow fat probably buy nukes to attack us again the same way they did eight years ago get rid of ALL of them because then I'll have the adoring support of true counter jihadis EVERYWHERE and then when that's done why it's time to return this country to it's original roots what it once was and can be again as it was in it's glorius beginning star with anyone with an Italian name yeah all the fucking dagos and wops all connected to the you know what causing trouble on our streets then the fucking potato eating Micks goddamn Irish fucking drunks picking fights Christ the Russians too they're ALL out to get us adn turn us into Commie Bastards and the Pollacks are just Russians by another name then the Jews we wouldn't have half the fucking trouble we do if it wasn't for the greedy fucking Jews caring for nothing but a dollar then the Mexicans and Spics they're ALL connected to the fucking cocaine trade from Columbia and Bolivia don't let them fool you they ALL grow dope in their houses and sell it on the corner to the darkies get rid of them too and the drug business dries up no more problem and America will once again be the White God Fearing nation it once was and we will ALL BE SAVED simply because we say we believe in GOd and Jesus Christ and the Bible and everything we've done is forgiven
CAN I GET A FUCKING AMEN FROM YOU ALL OUT THERE??!
WAKE UP & GROW UP GUYS:
IF FDR COULD BE AN ALLY OF STALIN TO DEFEAT HITLER, THEN WE CAN ALLY WITH THE EDL AND BNP TO DEFEAT ISLAMIZATION AND GLOBAL JIHAD.
UNTIL YOU TELL ME THE ANTI-JIHAD ALTERNATIVE IN BRITAIN I WILL LOOK THE OTHER WAY AND ACCEPT SUPPORT FROM THE EDL.
I FEEL THAT ONLY AFTER POLITICAL SUPPORT FOR THE EDL AND BNP HAVE GROWN SUBSTANTYIALLY WILL WITHER OF THE OTHER THREE PARTIES TAKE NOTICES AND ADJUST AND BECOME ANTI-JIHAD.
Wilders supports stealing (??)when it's Flemish Independence that's being sought. Funny, the Flemish are tired of being taxed to support the Islamic freeloaders in France. Quite the opposite of Islamic hoards stealing Kosovo.
People, if you want any ear to the ground info on England/Britain then ask me, I'm English and live in Britain. Infact, I intend to be at the Scottish Defense Leagues demo in Glasgow on 14th November - subject to being back from an Alice in Chains gig on the 13th in Birmingham!
I plan to video as much of it as I can.
As for the EDL - try going over to their website and joining a discussion on their forum(s). There are clearly a number of trolls who post threads such as "I'm a Jew, am I welcome?" and "I'm half Jewish, can I join?", and "I am welsh, is that acceptable" which to my mind are clearly attempts at getting someone to say "No" and then have a guess at what the headlines would be the next day?
Shiva has a point about taking it to the Jihadis. The fact that the EDL contains elements of football supporters is not exactly surprising and not actually that shocking. Go to any local pub before any local football match and generally what you hear is salt of the earth honest to goodness - how do I put it nicely - extreme cultural loyalty!
Football gang violence is as old as the hills and to be honest the fact that they've taken on this issue is admirable in my book because if there is any group of people in Britain violent enough to match the Jihadis, it's the football hooligans! They invented the chelsea smile (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chelsea+smile) for Gods sake.
As for some participants giving the salute, again, I agree with Shiva that it's a bit convenient however inevitably you are going to have people in your ranks who you don't share ideological goals with. In any case, it doesn't really make any sense for anyone in the EDL to give a Nazi salute considering the ideological ties between Islam and Nazis although they might have given this much thought.
Do I accept the support of Nazi saluting hardball football hooligans against the army of totalitarian jihadis? Yes I do because at the end of the day once all is said and done the football hooligan will go back to his life and leave me alone whereas Islam leaves nobody alone and with young children including one daughter that is simply not acceptable.
Are we heading for a war? Possibly. IMO some sort of civil war or at least widespread unrest in Britain is likely. Disenchantment is massively widespread and even people who don't usually talk politics are now talking politics, especially since the MPs expenses scandal. The police don't control the streets anymore, injustice is rife, minorities run the show with the majorities suffering in silence - but not for longer I don't think.
Who knows. We live in interesting times!
Shiva,
You said: Where my wife is concerned and living in England or anywhere in the West.
I think the demands on her to integrate would destroy her.
Have you ever stayed very long in Mindanao, if you have ,you surely must have notice how families and communities are far more closely knit.
Something that is lacking in the West
I say: Yes, my family is different from my wife's family. My wife moved here when she was nine, so she is pretty thoroughly American. However, her parents are very Filipino and the way we relate to each other is based upon that culture more than my culture. Or, at least that's my perspective.
They'd probably tell you the opposite.
Thing is, I believe in extended family, so I'm fine with the Filipino way. I was raised with a Grandma in the house. I was raised by parents who stuck together though they did not get along very well for a very long time.
I'm a pretty traditional person for an American.
And, also, remember that America doesn't have the idea that "children are to be seen and not heard."
So, America is, in a way, halfway between England and the Philippines anyway.
I understand, however, why you say your wife would be destroyed by Western culture. I get it.
I guess my question would be, how is it that you are not destroyed by Indonesian culture?
Anyway, I think I am better understanding where you are coming from.
I certainly appreciate this from you:
"If I was in England and the BNP where the ruling party (which I doubt will happen in the near future) a lot would depend on what
policies they where following, if they follow their present policy I would not have too many problems, except the only ethnics ruling, and I would join the group within the BNP to bring pressure to change that ruling, which is happening today
If the BNP where to revert back to their old ways, then I would fight them tooth and nail."
I would have to respond that I simply do not believe they have changed from their old ways, but you and I have been through that argument before, so we can let it drop if you want.
Anonymous said...
Wilders supports stealing (??)when it's Flemish Independence that's being sought. Funny, the Flemish are tired of being taxed to support the Islamic freeloaders in France. Quite the opposite of Islamic hoards stealing Kosovo.
I say: Hey dude, I told you I don't understand the way Europeans think.
You have to understand that in America, were we to propose the idea of annexing Mexico (a move which I actually support) we would be called war-mongers.
And yet, somehow, in Europe, when a major political leader in the Netherlands calls for the Netherlands to annex part of Belgium, it is not treated as an act of aggression.
I don't get it.
@relia ..u know what ?
GET A DECLARATION OF WAR, and then
we'll see.
// FULL ON RANT BEGINS :
As a jew, support for the BNP and their ilk make INSTANT MORTAL ENEMIES for me and mine out of any who support such groups and what they stand for every bit as serious as if they were parading for Nasrallah, or Heydrich.
EVERY BIT.
How many times have the jews been expelled from european nations?
Pogrom-ed?
BNP
CofCC
KKK
MB
ARYAN NATION
HIZBALLAH
POSSE COMITATUS
HOJATIEH
NATIONAL SOCIALISM
All one thing.
To the jews, they are all ONE COLOR, ONE PHILOSOPHY, ONE END.
So I don't want to hear any whining expedient bullshit about we need to have these subhuman morons as allies to fight off the terrible muslims, because FDR, in an existential shooting war we were not prepared for militarily, or psychologically, sought to keep a 4 million man army tying down the Wehrmacht (when our standing army was about 35,000 in the late 30's if not later) and did the minimum necessary to do so (Read the WISE MEN, and FDR's SECRET WAR)
Keep it up with the fucking BNP and you'll have 99% of all jews on THE OTHER SIDE, because they will never forget who made BARS OF FUCKING SOAP out of them, while pulling the gold fillings out the bodies of their industrially murdered kids' bodies ... and despite ALL THE QURANIC hate spewing from the so called 'profit'. Muslims were just 'pilers on', see Matthias Kuntzel.
If you and others are so scared that you need to adopt and protect and aid such policies and stands as the BNP has taken (which, make no mistake, is what taking them as allies IS), and delude yourselves that they can keep the same name, people, and avoid outright rejection of the past, and be something else (yes, a kinder gentler non expulsion KKK)... and it's all ok as long they claim 'we just want to stop islamization' - COUNT ME OUT OF THAT MOVEMENT
YOU
HAVE
ALREADY
LOST
ALL
BUT
CULTURAL
AND/OR
COLOR
AS
A
REASON
TO
RESIST
I'll fight them with other tools, AND AS A COMPULSORY EXTENSION ALL WHO ALLY WITH THE BNP AND MAKE THEMSELVES INTO ISLAMIST MUSLIMS WITH ANOTHER BRAND NAME
//RANT OFF
I feel better now and apologize for spiking adrenalin among others, but you know, you just have to deal with it.
I have known the KKK personally.
I have known them in small towns, and at the country clubs, and I can read about the BNP and what they HAVE SAID, HAVE DONE, and CLAIM NOW.
I have spoken with HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of mostly Salafis from the gulf for years, FRANKLY.
All one thing. The latter would just prefer I recognize God's mercy thru Islam, the former believe there's little help for being a jew.
If they all croaked tmw, I'd buy a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue.
So people need to think about that. Of course ... there aren't too many jews, and there's a reason for that as well. See above.
Beyond the BNP's racist history - my gripe with them includes their penchant for more socialism, government control. The BNP is a non-starter regardless of their stand on Islam.
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