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Deep State
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Tuesday, May 04, 2010

Faisal Shazad and the American System

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This society will always be vulnerable to surprise action, especially where an American citizen takes advantage of an open society. That's the way it has to be. But this has consequences overseas.

You know, if the FBI has the right man, exactly how this will unfold.

He might portray himself as an innocent american, or maybe he will turn the other way and tell us he is commanded by the Quran and others to exact 'justice' on this godless society.

But the import is that by inspiration or dedication, by plans or lone wolves, by conspiracy or individual action the challenge before the USA is how to spot these kinds of people.

It is almost IMPOSSIBLE

We cannot depend on the defense of luck on our side and incompetence on theirs. We cannot depend on apologies on the presidential scale to ingratiate ourselves with governments who snicker at us and are petrified of the very people in their own nations who carry out these actions. We cannot depend on drone attacks to kill just the leaders in Waziristan, Pakistan or Afghanistan, the Maghreb, Ethiopia, Somalia or anywhere else.

Never mind 16,500 more IRS people to ensure participation in an ill advised, unpopular and born to fail waste of money called the Health Care bill, we needed those people for something else.

Those who come here, as part of the American immigration endeavor, will have to submit to the idea that they are going to be looked at by national technical means and otherwise.

Right now this American who must get all the rights our courts demand, must be used as a case study for the defensive side of this war.

On the offensive side, .. the leaders are the way they are for a reason. They must die, but more. They were taught.

Kill the teachers and obliterate the schools

In 6 months, repeat. Circle the buildings with air, and when empty, POOOF.
250 lb. JDAM for the next imam in the building teaching death.
Again and again and again.

Ad nauseum.
Sooner or later those who are raised in a toxic atmosphere of death, female subjugation, slavery and religious intolerance so cyanotic it demands outright bigotry, will dwindle as those who teach that this is a religion of murder, and ignorance, and religious replacement and superiority are turned into pink mist and crushed tissue.


And the crueler it is.....

The NYC police dept CANNOT stop this. The FBI CANNOT stop this alone. Catching the culprits LATER, after explosion and death, with excellent work is BULLSHIT.

People walking the streets of NY and Phila and SF and Columbia, SC and Charlottesville VA, depend on the federal govt to PROTECT THEM.This is the 1st duty of the federal govt. Protection from foreign threat. If those in leadership are not ready to do what is required and suffer the obloquy of foreign senses and stupidity who will urge us to accept, like them, the friction of these deaths to avoid a real war.... THEY CAN RESIGN.

We have a CIA, an Air Force and the means to kill every single imam ready to STAND UP AND TEACH DEATH. All it takes it the will of the American people to enforce this RESPONSE to murder and war in our streets.

Will it really have to take thousands and thousands dead on some July 4th? Or Labor Day?

Or Memorial Day?

There are those who will say this is a bloody and cruel solution.
It is.
But it will, in the end, cause the LEAST number of casualties in this war, and the vast majority of them will NOT BE OURS.

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posted by Epaminondas at permanent link#


Blogger Will said...

Hi .
First of all it will need a President who's not in denial.
I was never to happy with President Bush but at least he had the guts to call the problem by it's name!
If you want to get rid of weeds you have to get rid of the roots.

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:17:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Re, the immigration debate. Are you for a national ID card?

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:30:00 pm  
Blogger Epaminondas said...


100% against it.

No matter what argument can be made for it's facility, and/or utility the real danger will be FROM OUR GOVT AGAINST US. Like the way Health care now has a wedge of 16.5k IRS agents to enforce it ..I don;t care what they say about 'its not criminalized' you can bet if you choose not to pay for insurance the IRS is coming after you with proctoscope with a microscope on the end of it .. I mean they are thinking "WHAT ELSE IS THIS UNPATRIOTIC PERSON UP TO?" ..more power for them, more fear for us ... IT"S UTTERLY WRONG

Remember, to me everyone conflates what I rgd as 2 issues ..border security and immigration. I am for a CLOSED BORDER by some skynet if needs be, but I am for immigration as if it were before 1924, WITH the single proviso that we must assure ourselves that entrants are not like this friggin' murdering cretin from Pakistan.

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 4:03:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

What is your argument against the National ID?

And, what about having one's immigration/citizenship status on the State Driver's License? What do you think of that?

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 4:06:00 pm  
Blogger Epaminondas said...

Why is it needed?
It's not that there is an argument against it which is required it is that there is no effective argument for it which does not result in more power for the federal govt.

And after Jan 09 to May 10 of this, I cannot imagine the kind of argument which has to be made to convince me the feds SHOULD have more intrusive powers of data comparison, stop and inspect, or a common data filed link to million other things.

As for immigration status on state driver's license ... that's up to each state. Ideas in Az are going to be very different from ideas in WV, however, when I go to Japan or France, my passport gets stamped and I have to have it ready especially with my american driver's license when I am behind the wheel... I assume the same would be requested by the cops here.

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 7:48:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

It seems the states want the Feds to take care of the immigration problem, but the states don't want the Fed to get involved in stating who is and isn't a citizen through any sort of workable forum.

The idea that people ought to carry around their Birth Certificate is tantamount to a Federal ID requirement, is it not?

I don't understand this debate.

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:36:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Maybe they should turn the Birth Certificate into a plastic card, which would fit well, and last well, in a wallet.

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:36:00 pm  
Blogger Epaminondas said...

The federal responsibility is the border.

The force they should exert is right there.

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 9:25:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

But, if I am not mistaken, you support the Arizona law, right?

By the way, I'm not picking on you. I'm asking you because I respect your opinion.

So, here's my question, if you support the Arizona law, then how is it reasonable to expect anyone who looks Mexican to carry around their birth certificate or Green Cards, or Citizenship papers with them all the time? Does that seem reasonable?

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 9:29:00 pm  
Blogger midnight rider said...

I support the law as well, Pastorius.

(as I understand it. I've waded through most of it)

It's intent is to enforce Federal law as it exists and is NOT being enforced now.

A person cannot be stopped just because he looks Mexican. There must be probable cause for something else (I believe that was the amendment just signed).

After that then there will be the attempt to verify the person's identity and status.

But that would happen if you were stopped for any violation, even a speeding ticket.

A green card is about the same size as a driver's license which, I assume, most people carry all the time, like a credit card. So I don't see anything wrong in requiring them to carry that at all times.

And if they are an Aemrican born or Naturalized citizen then they'll will have opportunity to prove that as well. No one is going to be pulling people out of cars and immediately escorting them back to Mexico (or whatever country of origin).

The ones who need to worry will be the ones who are here illegally. It may cause some hassles for others but that can happen in any situation. And if they're here legally and can prove it that's where it will end.

I'm not so dumb as to think there won't be abuse but again, that's not limited to immigration enforcement.

They're not protesting some new draconian measures. They are protesting that someone actually has the balls to enforce laws already on the books.

And I don't buy any of this "It was our land first" bullshit. Unless you are full blooded American (continent, not nation) Indian, then your ancestors came from the Old World as well.

I don't know how many people have actually read the dang thing instead of just a knejerk reaction (that's not a poke at you Pasto!) but if so inclined you can read it here .

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 10:06:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Points well-taken. And, I agree with what you are saying.

So, here's a reasonable question; what if they stop a guy who is Hispanic, or any other race, someone whom the cop deems to be "perhaps, not a citizen", and he is a citizen

How is he supposed to prove he is a citizen?

For this law to work, the cops can not be, merely, issuing citations. They would have to be taking people in then and there, right?

If not, then anyone who is not a citizen will just disappear.

So, like, if you or I were stopped and asked about our citizenship status, we would have no way to prove we are citizens. So, we would be taken in, right?

And then, we'd have to call home and hope our wives were there to bring us our Birth Certificate.

Truth is, I have no idea where my Birth Certificate is.

Tuesday, May 04, 2010 10:51:00 pm  
Blogger midnight rider said...

The cop cannot stop someone because he belives him to be not a citizen. That was the amendment (for sure -- I found it)

from CNN:

"These changes specifically answer legal questions raised by some who expressed fears that the original law would somehow allow or lead to racial profiling," Brewer said in a statement after the signing. "These new amendments make it crystal clear and undeniable that racial profiling is illegal and will not be tolerated in Arizona."

So, that said, let's say the individual is stopped for another reason and then said officer decides he may not be here legally.

Within the U.S. it is easy enough to prove you are a citizen. Birth Cert. SS#, in combination with a driver's license. It's done in 15 minutes anytime you have an instant check to buy a firearm in many states. And you can get a copy of your birth cert from your state's Bureau of Vital Statistics for a small fee.

Now, likely you'll need to do this in court BUT since you've been stopped for something other than "papers, please" you're presumably headed that way anyway and your indentity is going to be checked out before you ever get there.

In any event, it may cost you a bit of money but you will have ample time to prove you is who you is before they drop you off at the border.

So, for those who are concerned about it, why not be pre-emptice and make sure they have that documentation now, in case they need it?

But, if they are law abiding citizens, not planning on breaking any laws they could be hauled in for, then they shouldn't need it anyway, correct?

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 1:01:00 am  
Blogger midnight rider said...

By the way, a number of states, including Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Indiana, do have laminated wallet sized birth certs available.

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 1:29:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...

If you're like me, you get stopped relatively often. SPEEDING.

Do people like me have to start carrying our birth certificate with us everywhere?

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:39:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Cuz, if we don't, presumably, we're going to be taken in, right?

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:40:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Or, are the police only going to ask the people who they PRESUME to not be citizens to see their birth certificate/green card/citizenship papers?

Are we a nation of laws, or a nation of presumptions?

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:41:00 am  
Blogger midnight rider said...

No no. After you've been stopped they have to have reasonable suspicion/cause to believe you might be here illegally. Looking Mexican won't fly as reasonable cause. Nor will drinking Dos Equis behind the wheel but I digress.

I don't know how it works in Az. but in Pa. you're going to sit there while the cop runs your license and registration etc.

So stop speeding you no good ne'er-do-well traffic violator you.

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:53:00 am  
Blogger midnight rider said...

Keep in mind that (my understanding of) this is just giving Az. L.E. the same arrest and detain powers NICE already has but chooses not to enforce (or is too overstretched to do so). NICE can still go all knock knock with far less cause I think.

What I'm actually not clear on is does this give Az. the ability to do the deporting themselves or will these people need to be turned over to NICE before getting the boot?

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:04:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...

You're not really answering my question. But then, I didn't phrase it clearly enough.

If you get stopped for speeding, how is the cop to determine whether you might be an illegal alien?

Running the typical check won't do it. That's a Driver's License check.

Illegal aliens can have drivers licenses, can they not?

So, the cop would have to base his suspicion on something, right?

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:18:00 am  
Blogger midnight rider said...

Ok, gotcha. You're asking what would constitute probable cause to suspect an illegal alien.

I have no idea. That's a question Az. L.E. would need to weigh in on. Or someone who knows something about it.

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:30:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Would you want to be hauled in for not carrying your birth certificate?

Or, would you just carry your birth certificate around with you?

California does not have the laminated birth certificate option, to my knowledge. I've never seen one, and I've never heard of such a thing.

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 1:42:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

My point is, I don't think anyone has come up with a workable solution to the problem yet.

My proposal would be that citizenship status be listed on State Driver's Licenses.

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 1:43:00 pm  
Blogger midnight rider said...

Would you want to be hauled in for not carrying your birth certificate?

Nope, but rereading the law (without enough coffee yet I might add) it doesn't sound as though you will need to carry it. Only immigrants are required to carry immigration i.d.

Remember that even if stopped for a speeding ticket does not give the cop the right to ask about your immigration or citizenship status. There must be another cause.

So if you're geting hauled in, it's for something else as well.

Now, as I thought, this does not give Arizona the ability to deport. They must hand the individual over to NICE. So there would be ample time to prove your citizenship then.

Additionally, before you can be hauled in, the cop has to try to prove your immigration status through NICE. Probably using something similar to the e-verify that's out there for employers.

As for citizenship on the spot I don't know if knowing your SS# or having the card would be sufficient or if there is something similar to e-verify for this as well.

You're correct, by the way. Cali does not have laminted birth certs but they do exist. Both my older daughters have one.

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:47:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

I'm sorry to belabor this. I'm trying to see if I think your side has a point. I'm trying to learn.

You have not convinced me.

You said: Only immigrants are required to carry immigration i.d.

I ask: How are the cops supposed to know who is an immigrant, except by checking papers.

The point you are not getting is, cops do not have a reason to suspect that a guy is in the country illegally. What criteria could they possibly use to determine whether someone is reasonably suspicious on that front?

They would have to profile; looks like he's wearing out of date clothing, speaks with an accent, doesn't speak English, etc.

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 4:03:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

By the way, one of my best friends is an Irish guy who is not a citizen. He has no accent, and he is white, obviously.

So, a cop would never suspect that he is not a citizen, I guess.

Now, the fact that my friend has a Green Card is irrelevant. He could NOT have a Green Card, theoretically. Right?

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 4:05:00 pm  
Blogger midnight rider said...

Incorrect. A lawful permanent immigrant resident of the U.S. must have a green card and must carry it. Federal Law.

A non-permanent resident would presumably have a Visa or passport. Just as you would when traveling to England or France.

As for what criteria the cops will use to decide whether to check for immigration status again, I don't know.

As for proof of U.S. citizenship a driver's license should suffice ALTHOUGH there are a few states who will issue them to illegal immigrants. But then they are part of the problem, not the solution.

So if a cop stops someone and they can provide a valid driver's license that would probably be the end of it unless the cop suspects it to be a forgery, which is easy enough for him to check. Then there would be further investigation but, at the point, laws pertaining to false identity enter into it and the person has bigger problems than just his immigration status.

That's a bit of supposition on my part. What Az. cops are being told to look for and how to check it I don't know.

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 5:00:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

As far as I know, a non-citizen can get a Driver's License in any state.


You say: A lawful permanent immigrant resident of the U.S. must have a green card and must carry it. Federal Law. A non-permanent resident would presumably have a Visa or passport. Just as you would when traveling to England or France.

What about someone like my wife, who became a citizen at 18. She is dark-skinned (looks kind of Mexican) and does not carry her citizenship papers with her? Should she be hauled into the police station every time she has a run-in with the law?

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 5:41:00 pm  
Blogger midnight rider said...

"As far as I know, a non-citizen can get a Driver's License in any state."

That's true. But then they are also Federally required to carry the green card.

"Should she be hauled into the police station every time she has a run-in with the law?"

I dunno. How often does she have a run in with the law? Does she like handcuffs? Especially the fuzzy kind?

I THINK the way this will end up working is, if she shows them her driver's license and they have reason to suspect she is an illegal (looking Mexican or Filipino or Canadian or Irish or Martian or Vesuvian is NOT reason enough) then, because she has a valid license and address she may be required to send proof of citizenship.

We won't know how it will work until cases start coming before judges, as happens with most legislation.

Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:19:00 pm  

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