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Not Married to Liberty
Is Totalitarianism


Thursday, September 30, 2010

"US Is 'Practically Owned' by China" That can't be true, the real estate values in Osgiliath are way up !


US Is 'Practically Owned' by China: Analyst


The US supremacy as the top world economy will end sooner than many people believe, so gold is a better investment than the dollar despite it hitting a new record, Tom Winnifrith, CEO at financial services firm Rivington Street Holdings, told CNBC.com Monday.

Gold [XAU=X 1313.25 4.45 (+0.34%) ] hit a new record high Monday and silver [XAG=X 22.01 0.14 (+0.64%) ] rose to another 30-year peak as investors were worried about the dollar weakening further after the Federal Reserve hinted at more quantitative easing last week.

The US trade deficit and debt continue to grow and the authorities are reluctant to address the problem, preferring to print money, Winnifrith said.

"America is practically owned by China," he said.

He reminded of the fact that in 1900, sterling was the world's reserve currency but by 1948, that was no longer the case as the British Empire collapsed.

"America is doing what Britain did," Winnifrith said. "America spends much more than it can afford and it's not addressing the issue."

In 1832, China and India were the world's two largest economies and by 2032, they will regain that status, he predicted.

"The 200 years when Britain and the US were the top two economies were an aberration and that will change," Winnifrith said.

"The decline of empires has happened much faster than folks think. I believe that gold will be a far better bet in 20 years than the dollar," he added.

Meanwhile, in Bentonville, AR, they were all seen out on the golf course.

People, the USA NEEDS to have the debate on what kind of economy we should rebuild. Dems are endlessly complaining that republican businessmen and unfeeling fat cats are exporting jobs overseas, and that McConnell and Boehner are complicit. But the problem is what UNDERLIES the capital forces which compel companies to export those jobs or be uncompetitive. American LABOR RATES are uncompetitive. This is a natural result of our history and world history.
But we are choosing free trade and Walmart prices and goods over the tariff system Japan had in place from WW2 until the 90's, where they held internal prices (and therefore wages) high and sent export prices crashing.
We need to have a frank open discussion about all this. NATIONALLY.

Just YESTERDAY a major recipient of Obama-stim $$, Caterpillar announced they are building their newest factory - IN CHINA. This took place weeks after Obama claimed they would now hire more American workers because of stimulus $. But nothing can overcome the fact the capital is a force of nature

A trade war via tariffs right now might be cataclysmic, but it might not be FOR THE USA. Maybe we should wait. However we aren't even having the discussion in any party.
If we as consumers will always CHOOSE Walmart prices then we have to accept Walmart manufacturing wages if we want those jobs here. Do we? Who knows? No one has asked
Anyone here ready for that, and it's effects?
If not we need to understand what our choices are.
Both parties recognize this will not just be painful but involve choices which will imperil their biggest backers. Yet THAT is precisely the leadership which is compulsory.
It may be that we can become the idea center and creative power of the world, bu I simply don't believe that's possible when all the dollars, and profits made EVEN HERE, flee to where cheap labor is.
The universities will be there. The labs will be there.
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posted by Epaminondas at permanent link#


Blogger Will said...

You don't start a trade war with the country that holds almost 2 Trillion of your debt!Only an idiot would do this kind of action or one who's out to destroy his own economy?

Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:49:00 pm  
Blogger Silverfiddle said...

Robert Samuelson wrote about this yesterday:


He thinks a trade war may be the better of two really bad options, and he's not one known to say crazy stuff.

Our tax and regulatory burden are what is killing us, not necessarily wages.

You are right, Epaminondas, we do need to decide what kind of economy we want. Massive government intervention has grossly distorted our markets and provided perverse incentives for crony crapitalists.

As a libertarian, I generally disdain, government incentives, but something on the order of a tax break per every American job here, and its removal if all your work is done overseas sounds like something worth looking into.

Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:02:00 pm  
Blogger Silverfiddle said...

BTW, Hayek's Road to Serfdom is a great book for those who want to an introduction to non-Anarco Capitalist libertarianism.

Hayek's principles sound much like the founders'

Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:09:00 pm  
Blogger Epaminondas said...

What would happen to China's LIQUIDITY and CASH RESERVE VALUE if they panicked and dumped it?

What would our debt then be? If the dollar is worth $.33 overseas, we'll import NOTHING. Our exports will be the world's cheapest.

Suddenly we'll be compelled to pump american oil like there's no tmw.

Even Krugman is wondering if this is unavoidable NO MATTER WHAT.

Of course the short term is massive layoffs as demand stops and no one can afford gas. But the Fed will just PRINT and the US will HAVE TO REACT from what will then be a favorable international competitive position.

But I don't know enough about all the actions to even know what I favor here.

And no one with the influence to make a difference wants to have this discussion. All I see is people trying to score cheap points like Boxer accusing Fiorina of exporting jobs, but you'll notice Fiorina cannot answer frankly EVEN THOUGH HER POLLS ARE TANKING DAY BY DAY.

Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:32:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

If you are the banks biggest debtor, by far, you are the banks business partner.

If most of the banks assets come through the monthly payments that you pay, you are the banks business partner.

If most of the money that rolls through the bank, other than your monthly payments, comes via businesses that are making money on the things that you buy, YOU ARE THE BANKS BUSINESS PARTNER.

If you are the banks business partner, you have a seat in the board room, not the poor house, or THE BANK ITSELF WILL HAVE A SEAT IN THE POOR HOUSE.

Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:46:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Here, think about it another way.

Say, you're playing poker WITH CHIPS.

Everyone else wins all your chips, and Mr. China has about 10 times more of your chips than the other two guys at the table.

So, at the end of the evening, Mr. China wants you to pay on your chips.

He'd better have an awful big gun, and the willingness to use it, to get you to pay,


Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:50:00 pm  
Blogger Will said...

"Of course the short term is massive layoffs as demand stops and no one can afford gas."
Sounds like a great reason to declare Martial law ,just what he needs to become the great leader. No more election long live the Emperor.

Thursday, September 30, 2010 2:07:00 pm  
Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

I agree with Pastorius. China is owed money; they have to worry. Here’s what they have to worry about: being paid in worthless dollars, selling at rock-bottom prices, getting stiffed.

We have to worry about our excessive debt no matter who holds it, especially gov't debt. It binds our children to servitude. This, in my mind, is the greatest moral evil.

Silverfiddle, let me add that I’d modify a strictly libertarian position. There has to be a long-term commonality of values between the two cultures for full free trade. We should be skeptical of relying on trade with a nation that can one day be our enemy. It was our industrial might that allowed us to win WWII. I’m not worried about some of that capacity going to Japan or Europe—we have common values. China, however, is another story.

Friday, October 01, 2010 2:45:00 am  
Blogger Silverfiddle said...

I agree Jason.

Friday, October 01, 2010 3:37:00 am  
Blogger Epaminondas said...

Underlying this discussion is the incorrect assumption also that free trade includes free exchange rate of the underlying currencies.

China has mimicked Japan in the 50's in EFFECT by holding very low the value of their currency making imports expensive, and exports cheap. Add this to LOW third world labor rates, and rank poverty compared to the life of american workers and you have the current joke of a situation.

Friday, October 01, 2010 12:26:00 pm  
Blogger Silverfiddle said...


Again, I agree. Free trade is not free when someone is manipulating their currency.

Milton Friedman made a similar point on immigration. Libertarians are for free movement of people, but Friedman modified that with the caveat that the societies must be generally on par with one another.

Look at Us and Canada vice Us and Mexico.

Friday, October 01, 2010 1:13:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"let me add that I’d modify a strictly libertarian position. There has to be a long-term commonality of values between the two cultures for full free trade."


Friday, October 01, 2010 5:20:00 pm  

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