After so many generations of people calling themselves Palestinians, the use of Palestinian flags, anthems, television, and politicians; the Palestinian people have been created. A nation is a shared set of ideas backed by emotion. The reality of Palestinians has so much cache that people will die for it. Nations and peoples are not eternally existing entities, they are creations. But this does not make them any less real.
If fate threw all of the Palestinians into exile, say if all of them got sent to Saudi Arabia, would they persist as a people? The Jews faced this very question in the 5th century B.C. Deprived of land and scattered, the Jews in exile compiled the Bible to consolidate their identity. This common text allowed them to have something in common even when far apart. I suspect the Palestinian identity would only exist in academic / radical pockets after a few generations in exile.
My unproven contention about time eroding the Palestinian identity in exile points to the importance of long standing shared traditions to a national identity. The Palestinians flag and national anthem are recent creations. They have no ancient traditional art forms particular to them. But in “The Invention of the Jewish People” Schlomo Sand argued that even the idea of Jews has been created in time. While this is obviously true, the duration of the Jews makes their identity more solid.
What culturist lessons lie in this reality parsing? Well our starkest comparison to the Israeli situation comes from the strong concentration of people with Mexican loyalties in our Southwest. This situation resembles that of the Palestinians because many Mexicans believe that America exists land that was stolen from them. Herein lays the importance of Texas’ new culturist curricular laws. To avoid Middle East style conflict our schools must teach our side of the Mexican-American War and the glory of American identity to all residents in our borders.
But many other culturist lessons emerge from my refutation of Newt’s statement. The “national existence without land” standard reminds us of the importance of shared language, flags, history, heroes, geography, ideals, etc.. Multiculturalism’s anti-colonial ideology must be replaced by culturism. We must emphasize our unity, not our differences. Our government should return to its traditional stance of considering national cohesion legitimate considerations. Borders and Nativity Scenes impact survival. But the most important lesson is that all nationalisms are fictions that must be reinforced to survive.
Buy Culturism for 99 Cents HERE! www.culturism.us has more information on culturism.
16 comments:
Framed in the limits you set, the Pals are a people.
But they are a CONSTRUCT first and last, and without the failure of the Ottoman empire, then the Mandate, and then the Peel Commission, there would be no Palestinians on earth.
Thus I call on all Bokononists to join my grandfalloon and put and end to all this nonsense around us claiming OUR right of return.
Otherwise, we will use the Schwartz
The "Palestinian people" are a manifestation of the will of the people towards a Holocaust of the Jews without wanting to take direct responsibility for their actions.
If you want to call that a Nation, call it a Nation. I will call it as I see it: Satanism alive and well.
Satanism??? We can try to undo their nationhood by claims such as Newt's, because they are such a young nation. But, at current time, they are a nation.
Was the US a nation prior to the government? 50 years after the gtovernment were we still a fiction? When did we become an established fact real nation? It is a continuum, not an off or on toggle.
BTW, The idea that they are a physical manifestation of the desire to finish the holacaust is interesting. I think it is true. But many nations come at the counter of other nations. Koreans hate Japan for a living. Canadians . . The US was born in a battle to end British rule. It gave us a sense of identity. It was real too.
Interesting?
- Culturist John
They are nation by perception of SOME OTHERS who are pleased for political and anti semitic reasons to make it so. Palestinians are NOT a nation in objective reality.
As the British pointed out MANY TIMES the only reason arabs flowed into the mandate was the community the jews had built/were building and the opportunities therein.
Are the union workers in Pontiac a nation because they might say so?
Because they are against non union powers or workers? Becuase they might be more of one religion, other national heritage or color?
WC made a good point, the former historic palestinian palaces, royalties, seats of legislature, culturally significant and differentiating places are where?
Where have all the level headed Republicans gone? First it was the lying Herman Cain, please, go back to your pizza palace! Now its the new 5.0 Newt, come on people get a clue. You need to ask yourself do we want to win or do we just want to draw blood. It all centers on if you think that the Republicans can win or do you real believe that the Bag of tea party is now in charge. I love that Chris Christie laugh at their "Sharia Law" lies.
Montana,
So do you back Mitt?? We need a debate forum on who IBA believes can win (if anyone) against Obama.
Pastorius,
You recognize that nationhood is an assertion. Are the Basque people a nation? The Tamils? What of Italy prior to 1821? When did England become a nation and the English people come into being? You cannot tell me these entities have always existed.
So the question is, what makes a claim to nationhood strong or weak? Would the Palistinians have none of those characteristics? Zero?
BTW, is my equation with the southwestern / Mexico situation here analogous?
Culturist John
Epa,
Bokononists and Pontiac workers could actually make a nation. If they taught their kids long enough that they were a nation. If they made up traditions. Came up with an enemy. Ran their own government. And had the "sting of injustice" towards their folks advertised.
Perhaps the UN would consider their bid for statehood.
And that is how it is done. When France recognized America during the revolution, did we have any AMericans? Time makes the origins seem eternal. But, many peoples around the world vie for statehood. There is a degree to which they are legitimate.
BTW, There is a lot of writing on this. Western Europe made States and "peoples" first. THey it spread to the East. Kings were topples in the name of the "people." But those people often had scant collective identity. Nation forming by Richelieu and others was a consciously practiced culturist art.
And none of the nations of Africa, the Middle East, or Latin America have much historical precedent either. Brazilians is a 1830s concept. It is a real nation.
John, my problem with your argument is a very philosophical one.
PERCEPTION is NOT REALITY.
Reality is something objectively measurable. Ideally with an oscilloscope.
The argument you make is the tree falling in the forest.
As someone in science I have to tell you there is ALWAYS a noise.
You argue people can determine reality by what they feel.
Sorry but in my world, reality exists independent of people.
Actually you are describing PERFECTLY a grandfalloon. Not a nation.
If Israel was killed, do you think it would be long before the Hashemite kingdom, became the full Transjordan, or a muslim brotherhood Egypt?
A nation as a requirement also has a physical necessity minimum below which it cannot exist.
The 'palestinian' people do not have this and cannot achieve it as a west bank and gaza (in this case just a west bank with natural resources = to ?), which, PS, is one of the reasons why I believe they will never give up right of return, and in doing so guarantee they will never be a nation, because Israel can never acquiesce
Monaco was the nation of which Grace Kelly was Queen. It is .7 square miles. It has citizens. But is land your real criteria? The Jews are a people regardless of land.
In the academic literature, a "people" is called a "nation." And the "State" refers to having your own government. Many States have mulitple nations withiin them (See African nations). THis is a problem.
Some "peoples' have a claim without land. Some States have no real solid nation behind them. Where the Palestinians fall is interesting.
Monaco has a natural resource beyond compare, per capita and per square mile.
OCEANS OF CASH
Ever been in a restaurant where the menu they give the gal HAS NO PRICES?
When my gal asked how much the xxx was, the waiter told her it was a question NOT fitting for someone so beautiful, at which point we both realized something was not like Uno's.
HERE
Palestinians are an invented people, with that I agree. I also, kind of, just a little bit, agree with John that the more time passes, the less good it will do to argue with that idea.
One piece of evidence that "Palestinians" are recognizable as a people is that the King of Jordan was able to target and kill 10,000 of them back in the early 70's.
The Israelis are not the only people who don't like the "Palestinians." Jordan doesn't want them, and Egypt doesn't want them.
Egypt has a wall 20 feet high and 20 feet deep to keep them the fuck out.
That's quite an endeavor to carry through on a people that are not, at all, recognized.
There are better reasons to say "Fuck you" to all Palestinians, though it is not politically correct to judge things this way. But, I will, so here goes; the people do not have a worthwhile set of ideas upon which they base their premise for statehood. If their ideas were expanded the world would be a worse place. So really, just destroy their towns, and kick them the hell out of the land. Send them to live with people who want to live in a murderous Sharia state. Send them to Somalia, or Saudi Arabia, or Iran, or even better, now, send them to Egypt to be fucked in the ass by their Salafist brothers who will take over that once great land.
Look at history. Look at all the good that is accomplished when good and strong peoples do away with groups of people whose cultures are based on human sacrifice.
Oh yeah, and here's what happens when you allow insane ideas like those on which the "Palestinian" culture is based to expand and grow; Pakistan.
EPA,
It reminds me of the Shiela E line, "She found him shopping in the section marked, "if you have to ask you cant afford, DON'T ASK!" Wow. Nice Monaco memories.
Pastorius,
I agree that the whole world would be a nice place if the "Palesinian" people were moved into one of their fellow Muslim's nations.
But your quote below is tongue in cheek, right?
"Look at history. Look at all the good that is accomplished when good and strong peoples do away with groups of people whose cultures are based on human sacrifice."
Is this a Native American dig?
Most importantly, we may - as you imply - still be in a place where one can still assert that the Palestinians are made up and win with that argument. It would certainly help mellow their assimilation after moving to Jordan.
But, alas, I fear your Egyptian wall truths mean that the time for this strategy has passed.
- Culturist John
To my knowledge, the people we call "Native Americans" did not participate in Human Sacrifice.
It was a dig at the Aztecs.
Thank God they were destroyed and we took over California.
Various forms of "human sacrifice" were widespread in Native AMerican culture. First of all, like all tribal cultures, Native Americans were extremely engrossed in war and violence.
More to the point, the mound people in the current South killed all who were associated with the old king when he died. And, the potlach folk of the West coast lined the shore with slaves for visitors to land their boats on. I am sure there are more, but these Native AMerican practices come immediately to mind.
- Culturist John
I'm guessing you do not exactly lament the passing of their culture, right?
Post a Comment