Thursday, November 15, 2007

Robert Spencer On The Current Controversy


Yesterday, Fjordman posted an essay at Gates of Vienna which gave his perspective on whether the current rift in the blogosphere (between Gates of Vienna/Atlas Shrugs on one side and LGF/IBA, etc. on the other side.
Fjordman's essay was well-reasoned, and I think it is worth reading. I note with satisfaction that Fjordman agrees with me on the one matter which has really stuck in my craw this whole time; that Filip DeWinter, the leader of Vlaams Belang is, apparently, enamored of Jean-Marie Le Pen:


... of all the information published by LGF, a lot of which is nonsense
or outdated or both, the one piece of information that I disliked the most was
VB’s connection to Jean-Marie Le Pen from the FN in France through the Identity,
Tradition, Sovereignty group at the European Parliament. I don’t like Le Pen at
all and consider it to be poor judgment by the VB to have even a formal link to
that party.
They should seriously consider cutting that link in the future. It’s
not helpful.



Now, Fjordman doesn't go any further than that. There is no call for action, no request that DeWinter immediately recscind his tacit, if not outright, support for Le Pen. And, maybe Fjordman has his reasons. I'm guessing he believes the rest of the points he makes in his essay are reason enough.
Ok, fine.

Anyway, it seems that everyone is quoting Robert Spencer's essay on the controversy today. What's funny is everyone is pulling quotes from the essay to make it look as if the essay supports their point of view. Both Pamela at Atlas Shrugs and Charles from Little Green Footballs have used this tact without being completely forthright about the fact that the essay is more nuanced than being a simple support of either side.

That being said, I think I'll tell you outright, I'm pulling the quote which most supports my position. And, if you are interested, you ought to click on the link above and read the whole thing.

Here's my favorite quote from Spencer's essay:


The neofascist character of the anti-jihad parties in Europe also keeps
many decent people from joining the counterjihad movement, when they otherwise would. This is the great weakness of the argument that, well, there is no one
else fighting this fight
, so we have to join forces with people we would
otherwise regard with distaste: some people simply will not and will never do
that, and it limits the power of the movement and its ability to
grow.


So then we come to Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats. The
controversy has revolved around the sincerity of their break with the past:
their supporters maintain that they have broken with Nazi links in their pasts,
and they are undeniably pro-Israel. The counterjihad conference that touched all
this controversy off -- since VB and SD reps attended it -- was openly
pro-Israel, featuring an address by Andrew Bostom on antisemitism and another by
the decidedly non-dhimmi Israeli politician Aryeh Eldad. There was nothing white
supremacist or neo-Nazi about it, and in fact it seemed to herald a new phase of
cooperation between European and American anti-jihadists, although its genuine
work has been completely overwhelmed by the ensuing controversy. In any case,
did VB and SD reps meet with Bat Ye'or, Bostom, Eldad and others in order to
deceive people as to their true intentions, or did they do so in order to herald
a clean break with their pasts?


If it was a clean break, it needs to be a completely clean break.
The VB in particular has many clear-eyed and sensible supporters in the U.S.,
including many people I respect very highly. But much has come to light since
the conference -- much of which I was unaware before I went, and of which I
think most people in the U.S. were unaware. Charles' points in his post on
Fjordman's piece yesterday are well taken: "Nothing" -- that is, in Fjordman's
article -- "about the White Power symbols in the Vlaams Belang youth magazine,
nothing about the connections between unrepentant Nazi collaborator Leon
Degrelle and top Vlaams Belang officials, nothing about the top VB leaders who
fought with police in order to lay flowers on the graves of SS soldiers, nothing
about the White Power symbol on Filip DeWinter’s bookshelf, nothing about
DeWinter’s calls for a 'white Europe.'"

... I am just watching and waiting for what VB and SD will do now, and I hope that tempers will cool on both sides and we can all continue to work together against the jihad and Islamic supremacism. There are few enough of us as it is.




19 comments:

BFB said...

What has this got to do with the BNP (whom you 'hate' with a passion despite being a 'loving' Christian)?

BFB said...

BTW, did I mention 'birds' and 'feathers' in a previous thread?

I don't mean to club you with this, but 'birds' and 'feathers' is a valid topic of discussion, is it not?

Over to 'Watcher' ( who only advocates the black viewpoint)!

Always On Watch said...

Just a thought:

I saw no evidence of any reporting of this recent controversy in the msm. Why not?

Or maybe I mised the stories.

Pastorius said...

AOW,
That would require the MSM to admit that they actually pay attention to us.

Anonymous said...

In the discussion of the various cultural traditions and forces at work in the European counter-jihad, no mention has been made of the Sleeping Giant - The Roman Catholic Church.

Pope Benedict seems aware of the menace, but has refrained from anything more controversial than the Regensberg address, because the slightest provocation will result in the rape of Catholic nuns and children and the torture and murder of priests.

Unfortunately the Catholic blogosphere, though vast, does not fill the gap.

I've been checking a random sample of of the huge number of Catholic sites linked from

http://catholicblogs.blogspot.com

and apart from http://jovan66102.blogspot.com
I haven't found a single site which makes any reference to the menace engulfing Christian Europe. Of course I may have missed some, but I can't help but get an impression of introspection, complacency and 'Sheep to the slaughter.'

Anonymous said...

In the discussion of the various cultural traditions and forces at work in the European counter-jihad, no mention has been made of the Sleeping Giant - The Roman Catholic Church.

Pope Benedict seems aware of the menace, but has refrained from anything more controversial than the Regensberg address, because the slightest provocation will result in the rape of Catholic nuns and children and the torture and murder of priests.

Unfortunately the Catholic blogosphere, though vast, does not fill the gap.

I've been checking a random sample of of the huge number of Catholic sites linked from

http://catholicblogs.blogspot.com

and apart from http://jovan66102.blogspot.com
I haven't found a single site which makes any reference to the menace engulfing Christian Europe. Of course I may have missed some, but I can't help but get an impression of introspection, complacency and 'Sheep to the slaughter.'

Pastorius said...

Najistani,

We used to have a contributor here at IBA named Someguy who was a European Catholic. Someguy also had a blog called Mystery Achievement. His blog was somewhat pious in nature, but very well aware of the threat of Islam.

Too bad he disappeared on us.

You're right, there aren't a whole lot of Catholic sources for information on the international Jihad.

That's strange.

Anyway, let me recomment Pope Benedict's book,

Without Roots: The West, Relativism, Christianity, Islam

BFB said...

"Birds" and "feathers" still resonates in my mind. Anyone prepared to engage in this topic?

Not you, Pastorius, you only seem to come to life when Jesus is mentioned (remind me of the 11th commandment...was it something to do with a little black number sucking your gonads...?)

Anonymous said...

Pastorius, thanks for the reference.

The silence of the Catholic Church as a defender of European civilisation is all the more worrying because the spiritual vacuum is being filled by pagans of the 'blood and soil' variety.

They worship the Odin's cross as their emblem, which should not be confused with the ancient Christian Celtic Cross (Celtic crosses always have intricate carvings and are NEVER SET ON FIRE as part of a 'religious' observance.)

A nationalist cultural revival throughout Europe seems to be gathering momentum. It may draw its inspiration from a common Christian heritage, or return to earlier, darker traditions such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society

BFB said...

I have asked a perfectly valid question which has been consistantly ignored (Najistani, keep out of this)...

Pasty, how can you justify your 'hatred' of the BNP?

Didn't Jesus create racism by creating 'the races'?

If anyone is responsible for 'racism' was it not YOUR GOD?

Ignore me if you will, I will not go away!

Najistani, don't suck on Pastorius' COCK...I am disappointed

Dag said...

Pastorious, have I happened to mentin over the past four years tht it might be a good idea to have people meet at their local libraries once a week to discuss the issues we face regarding jihad and dhimmitude? If not, please remind me to do so before the demagogues get in ahead of us.

Pastorius said...

BFB,
You're much more entertaining when I don't answer your questions.

BFB said...

"Woe is me...!"

OK, turn the record over.....

Always On Watch said...

Pastorius,
That would require the MSM to admit that they actually pay attention to us.

Not only to us, but to the critics of Islam, including Bat Ye'or, Robert Spencer, Andrew Bostom, etc.

The msm missed an opportunity to take shots at the counter-jihad movement(s).

BFB said...

Pasty, point taken, and no offence intended.

As I've said in the past, if you don't delete comments, you are friend of mine!

Delete a comment...and you've got Hitler on your back!

Pastorius said...

Hitler?!?

Pastorius said...

AOW,
Yeah, I guess they are going to ignore any sign of the will of the people.

Epaminondas said...

It's critical that we divorce ourselves form the personal ego needs of it being necessary to be 'right' and the other 'wrong' and that we stick to facts as we can determine them.

If Vlaams is a far right party only in euro-nomenclature and is about where Tancredo is in the USA that's one thing (and they should have the chance to show this) but if they ARE wanting 'white flanders and europe' they should be stepped on. If they are a majority in Belgium, then that's what Beglium is, and we all take heed. Ein Volk.

We've already had this WHOLE racial experience, and we know where that all leads.

Pastorius said...

Epa,
I can let almost anything be when it comes to this fight. Let's face it, IBA has never been a group of likeminded individuals. There are, and have been, all sorts of writers here, many of whom I don't agree with on many subjects.

That being said, I can not put up with racism.

Both Fjordman and Robert Spencer have stated that there are things about the Vlaams Belang which give them pause.

Before Spencer and Fjordman made that admission, this whole subject was defined by an argument such as the following:

"You are supporting Ethnic Nationalists at the VB, therefore, you are supporting racists."

"No, we're not. Because you have said something like that, you have made it clear that you aren't a true counter-Jihadi, and you are giving aid and comfort to our enemy."