Monday, March 02, 2009

National Counterterrorism Center holds the names of roughly 775,000 "terror suspects"?

Even with my dark view of the world, this seems a stunning number, if true. I'd love to hear everyone's feedback on this one.

From the San Francisco Chronicle:

"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist."

- Winston Churchill, Nov. 21, 1943

Since 9/11, and seemingly without the notice of most Americans, the federal government has assumed the authority to institute martial law, arrest a wide swath of dissidents (citizen and noncitizen alike), and detain people without legal or constitutional recourse in the event of "an emergency influx of immigrants in the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs."

Beginning in 1999, the government has entered into a series of single-bid contracts with Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) to build detention camps at undisclosed locations within the United States. The government has also contracted with several companies to build thousands of railcars, some reportedly equipped with shackles, ostensibly to transport detainees.

According to diplomat and author Peter Dale Scott, the KBR contract is part of a Homeland Security plan titled ENDGAME, which sets as its goal the removal of "all removable aliens" and "potential terrorists."

Fraud-busters such as Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, have complained about these contracts, saying that more taxpayer dollars should not go to taxpayer-gouging Halliburton. But the real question is: What kind of "new programs" require the construction and refurbishment of detention facilities in nearly every state of the union with the capacity to house perhaps millions of people?

Sect. 1042 of the 2007 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), "Use of the Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies," gives the executive the power to invoke martial law. For the first time in more than a century, the president is now authorized to use the military in response to "a natural disaster, a disease outbreak, a terrorist attack or any other condition in which the President determines that domestic violence has occurred to the extent that state officials cannot maintain public order."

The Military Commissions Act of 2006, rammed through Congress just before the 2006 midterm elections, allows for the indefinite imprisonment of anyone who donates money to a charity that turns up on a list of "terrorist" organizations, or who speaks out against the government's policies. The law calls for secret trials for citizens and noncitizens alike.

Also in 2007, the White House quietly issued National Security Presidential Directive 51 (NSPD-51), to ensure "continuity of government" in the event of what the document vaguely calls a "catastrophic emergency." Should the president determine that such an emergency has occurred, he and he alone is empowered to do whatever he deems necessary to ensure "continuity of government." This could include everything from canceling elections to suspending the Constitution to launching a nuclear attack. Congress has yet to hold a single hearing on NSPD-51.

U.S. Rep. Jane Harman, D-Venice (Los Angeles County) has come up with a new way to expand the domestic "war on terror." Her Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 (HR1955), which passed the House by the lopsided vote of 404-6, would set up a commission to "examine and report upon the facts and causes" of so-called violent radicalism and extremist ideology, then make legislative recommendations on combatting it.

According to commentary in the Baltimore Sun, Rep. Harman and her colleagues from both sides of the aisle believe the country faces a native brand of terrorism, and needs a commission with sweeping investigative power to combat it.

A clue as to where Harman's commission might be aiming is the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, a law that labels those who "engage in sit-ins, civil disobedience, trespass, or any other crime in the name of animal rights" as terrorists. Other groups in the crosshairs could be anti-abortion protesters, anti-tax agitators, immigration activists, environmentalists, peace demonstrators, Second Amendment rights supporters ... the list goes on and on. According to author Naomi Wolf, the National Counterterrorism Center holds the names of roughly 775,000 "terror suspects" with the number increasing by 20,000 per month.

What could the government be contemplating that leads it to make contingency plans to detain without recourse millions of its own citizens?

The Constitution does not allow the executive to have unchecked power under any circumstances. The people must not allow the president to use the war on terrorism to rule by fear instead of by law.

Lewis Seiler is the president of Voice of the Environment, Inc. Dan Hamburg, a former congressman, is executive director.



Could this news being released at this particular time, have anything to do with this story?

Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos

WASHINGTON – The Obama administration threw open the curtain on years of Bush-era secrets Monday, revealing anti-terror memos that claimed exceptional search-and-seizure powers and divulging that the CIA destroyed nearly 100 videotapes of interrogations and other treatment of terror suspects.

The Justice Department released nine legal opinions showing that, following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Bush administrationdetermined that certain constitutional rights would not apply during the coming fight. Within two weeks, government lawyers were already discussing ways to wiretap U.S. conversations without warrants.

The Bush administration eventually abandoned many of the legal conclusions, but the documents themselves had been closely held. By releasing them, President Barack Obama continued a house-cleaning of the previous administration's most contentious policies.

"Too often over the past decade, the fight against terrorism has been viewed as a zero-sum battle with our civil liberties," Attorney GeneralEric Holder said in a speech a few hours before the documents were released. "Not only is that school of thought misguided, I fear that in actuality it does more harm than good."

The Obama administration also acknowledged in court documents Monday that the CIA destroyed 92 videos involving terror suspects, including interrogations — far more than had been known. Congressional Democrats and other critics have charged that some of the harsh interrogation techniques amounted to torture, a contentionPresident George W. Bush and other Bush officials rejected.

The new administration pledged on Monday to begin turning over documents related to the videos to a federal judge and to make as much information public as possible.

The legal memos written by the Bush administration's Office of Legal Counsel show a government grappling with how to wage war on terrorism in a fast-changing world. The conclusion, reiterated in page after page of documents, was that the president had broad authority to set aside constitutional rights.

Fourth Amendment protections against unwarranted search and seizure, for instance, did not apply in the United States as long as the president was combatting terrorism, the Justice Department said in an Oct. 23, 2001, memo.

"First Amendment speech and press rights may also be subordinated to the overriding need to wage warsuccessfully," Deputy Assistant Attorney General John Yoo wrote, adding later: "The current campaign against terrorism may require even broader exercises of federal power domestically."

On Sept. 25, 2001, Yoo discussed possible changes to the laws governing wiretaps for intelligence gathering. In that memo, he said the government's interest in keeping the nation safe following the terrorist attacks might justify warrantless searches.

That memo did not specifically attempt to justify the government's warrantless wiretapping program, but it provided part of the foundation.

Yoo, now a professor at the University of California at Berkeley School of Law, did not return messages seeking comment.

The memos reflected a belief within the Bush administration that the president had broad powers that could not be checked by Congress or the courts. That stance, in one form or another, became the foundation for many policies: holding detainees at Guantanamo Bay, eavesdropping on U.S. citizens without warrants, using tough new CIA interrogation tactics and locking U.S. citizens in military brigs without charges.

23 comments:

midnight rider said...

Pastorius -- there is some truth here and some bullshit. I'll be back shortly for further comment. Especially about the camps and railcars.

Anonymous said...

Well, according to the polls you posted last week, this isn't surprising at all. In summary, the polls said that about 7.5/10 people in the polled Muslim countries do not support attacks on American civilians. That would leave 2.5/10 people in those countries that do support attacks on American civilians. If you take into account that there are over 1 billion Muslims in the world, this adds to approximately 250 million people that support terrorism against Americans. Now, if you single out the extreme of the extreme that are actually willing to become terrorists, 750,000 seems like a reasonable, if not small number to have on a watchlist. Of course all of this is my own rough estimation, but it does make sense.

Reliapundit said...

SOUNDS LOW TO ME.

THERE ARE MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS HERE.

AND LEFTIST SYMPS/FELLOW TRAVELERS WHO HATE AMERICA.

Pastorius said...

Total and Reliapundit,
Listen, I have no problem believing there are millions of seditious Sharia-advocating would-be Jihadists in this country.

But, I have a very hard time believing our government recognizes this, given the policies they have been pursuing with regards to Hamas, Hizbollah, Iran, and Sharia Finance.

I have to wonder who is on this list.

Are they Sharia-advocates? Or ...

midnight rider said...

Ok. I’ll try to keep this as lucid and cohesive as possible. No guarantees because there is a lot of weirdness involved. And apologies for extreme length.

This article nibbles and chomps at some conspiracy theory stuff I’ve been reading about for several years. And it deals with these detention camps, supposed powers granted the President in time of Crisis and those railcars.

It seems to have started with a program in the 80’s called Rex-84 or Readiness Exercise 1984 (that should set off flags right there) which was a plan by the Feds to test their ability to detain large numbers of people, Americans or otherwise, in cases of national emergency, civil unrest etc. or anything that threatened U.S. continuity of government. Supposedly there were camps and railcars and such just in case. It came up during the Iran Contra hearings and a good deal has been written on it over the years.

Now, a few years ago and for several years after I used to listen to 2 podcasts, The Enigma Files and Homeland Security Weekly, both hosted by one Kathleen Keating. Enigma was her own show devoted to spiritual happenings and HSW was done jointly with Doug Hagmann of NEIN fame.

EF often went way out there. Keating was a hardcore believer in end times (or at least she came off that way) to the point of naming who she thought was the anti-Christ, demons would walk openly among us, aliens would return but were actually demons, and a massive Illuminati type conspiracy theory she had.

Included in that was this grand plan for a world takeover by Bilderburg types, including Bush. And she was also a bit of a truther.

Part of the plan included these detention camps and operation ENDGAME.

Specifically, these camps were designed to hold American desenters when the grand takeover finally happened. She had callers who would describe these camps, secret sources in the Pentagon who would tell her this stuff. One caller early in the season claimed to have seen these railcars up close and personal. Described the bars, described the shackles, and then went on to describe the guillotine in it. Apparently not everyone was intended to make it to the camps.

She talked about huge gates that had been installed on the interstates to be shut to stop the flow of a mass exodus when the crackdown came.
She had a caller who claimed to be an independent truck driver who claimed to have hauled mysterious cargo for the feds. Ostensibly bodies of dead homeless the gov’t had rounded up and used in experiments.

She was also a huge believer in scalar technology, Tesla howitzers etc. Stuff I don’t pretend to understand but tied everything together in a sinister way.

She would bring this stuff up on Hagmann’s show, too. Here he was trying to give what he thought was serious H.S. info and this would come up.

She wrote a bunch of books on this junk, including two novels. When he was on the show Hagmann would fawn all over these novels. But suddenly he stopped his show and I suspect it was because of this junk.

I bought those two novels and I have never read such an incoherent story line, such abominable prose or atrocious grammar in my life.

Anyway, the point of this missive being these stories have been around for a long time. There may be truth to them but may not be. Keating certainly thought there was and for that reason I have a very skeptical eye about the whole thing. If it’s true this stuff was started by Bush. Why didn’t we hear Dems screaming long and loud about it? Why would Keating & Co. know and not Congress? Do you really think we would have a 2 party conspiracy this big? Hell, they can’t even agree on the color the toilet papar should be, let alone something this big this long cross party.

To my knowledge no one has ever seen these camps. I’ve seen pictures of what were supposed to be the camps. Look like a big open field to me. Where are they hiding all these railcars all this time? Has anyone actually seen the directives mentioned? Produced valid copies for scrutiny?

A couple quick links: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread164307/pg1 on 8/21/05

“I’m tired of the same vague list of concentration camps being copied onto every website. How about giving me some exact locations of these railcars and camps in the Pacific NW. Some websites say there are 200 to 800 camps. The locations are so vague as to not even make them even real. I give an example, there’s a purple house in southern Texas with Gnomes. Give directions people, like 3 miles south of intersection X Street and Y Street in town Z, State Unknown.

By the way, Federal and State prisons don’t count, nor do landfills. One post I saw said there was one camp being guarded by men with M16’s and it had a sign calling it a Golf course.

Why would someone make these crazy accusations without giving an exact location of the camp?

That’s right it’s a conspiracy theory.”

A YouTube video purported to expose the camps (I can’t get sound from it): Detention camps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_-CIat6Bdw&eurl=http://www.infowars.com/we-are-change-colorado-check-out-dnc-detention-camps-and-break-exclusive-footage/

A story from 2 years ago about Operation ENDGAME.

The point being, there may be some truth to the camps and directives but when so much has been muddied by conspiracy theorists had can you even begin to tell truth from fiction.

775,000 terror suspects? That’s ALL? One Tenth of one percent of Muslims Worldwide? Seems like a lowball number to me.

solsticewitch13 said...

hiya,, I think you guys need to see what I found today,,,

RAZOR WIRE,, compounds being built in the arizona desert,,

<<<<

Feb 23, 2009. Over the past five months, this "compound" has taken shape out in the central Arizona desert, in the middle of nowhere near Blackwater and Sacaton Arizona, along the dry Gila River. It looks to be about a quarter mile long by an eighth mile wide. It has razor wire all around it, power lines run to it and about half of it is cleared of vegetation. It is in an inhospitable and inescapable area of the Sonoran desert.

The closest small towns would be about 10 miles away in any direction. You'd be lucky to walk one mile in the summer heat there. April to November temps are commonly well above 100F. Summertime temps are routinely 120 F or even higher. Could this be for Guantanamo Bay detainees? Coming civil unrest? Illegal aliens? Mortgage defaulters?

>>>>>>

link to pics in article,,

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page2965.html?theme=light



Lan Astaslem
solsticewitch13

midnight rider said...

I don't know. Quarter mile by an eighth of a seems kind of small for a detention camp. But I could be wrong.

Pastorius said...

Couldn't that be one of Sheriff Joe Arpaio's facilitites?

Pastorius said...

MR,
Why did the San Francisco Chronicle publish this?

Why is this story being floated right now? Do you think it has anything to do with the Obama realease of Bush's secret memos?

midnight rider said...

Pasto -- Hadn't thought of that. Is that his area?

Just read the second part you added while I was typing my bit above.

Alot of that sounds like it was the Administration talking back and forth about what to do now. What can be done, how far can we reach if. . .

Especially in the days and months immediately after 9/1 the gov't was scrambling on how to protect the country (that's their sole job)(you know that).

For anyone to imagine that in the wake of a nuke attack on the Homeland the ground game here wouldn't change dramatically with martial law and rounding up of the usual suspects (rightly or wrongly). This really sounds like a gov't trying to best (?) prepare for that eventuality.

CIA destroying interogation tapes doesn't surprise me. Especially when faced with an incoming administration hostile to everything done the last 7 yrs, figuring they're going to try to release all kinds of crap about how this war has been fought. Some of that shit should not be released. Good peole may die because of it. The Valerie Plame affair will look like a comic movie -- oh, wait, it already does.

midnight rider said...

Pasto -- regarding your why now question. . .

because it's a slow newsday.

That's only 1/2 a joke.

It makes no sense, really, especially since most of this stuff has been on conspiracy sites for years. Maybe they do just want to jump on the band wagon following the released docs story. But I also read this today, thought about posting it then thought "nah".

http://www.dcexaminer.com/politics/Heard-the-news-Reporters-think-the-time-for-panic-is-now_03_02-40513792.html

But the problem is it has been out there on the kook sites so long it now makes this article and AP look like conspiracy theorists, too. Oh, wait, maybe that's not so fgar off. . .

solsticewitch13 said...

Hi Midnight Rider,, Pastorius,,

Dunno,, just kinda bizaar,, to have this HUGE cage,, out in the middle of nowhere.

If more of 'em start to sprout up,, I'll be even more curious, as to what is up with the cage??!!!

I sent it to Glen, at TROP, he is good at mysteries,, LOL

and wowee, I added Walid Shoebat,, at facebook,, I get a accept,, I go to "his" page,, someone has ripped off walid for a fake page. This troll, stole,, all his pics,, fake profile,, all kinds of EFF this and EFF that,, (NO WAY, Walid Shoebat, would ever behave like that on his own page!!!)

This scam,, has comments,, but, but,, you aren't MY WALID!!,

I deleted the hack,, just to be safe.

I reported it to facebook,, and mailed Jamie Glazov so he'd know,, Walif and him are friends,,

if you have facebook check it out,,

walid shoebat

that is NOT MY WALID,, either,, LOL

solstice

midnight rider said...

I could see Sheriff Joe putting something like that there. His style. Easy (need a/c) drive but try to escape on foot and you're screwed.

Anonymous said...

Interesting article to ponder upon

The Pakistani time bomb
Posted: February 27, 2009

So far, the United States has given the government of Pakistan more than $12.3 billion in military and economic aid. Vice President Joe Biden proposed last summer that we throw another $7.5 billion in non-military aid Pakistan's way over the next five years.

But that isn't enough to keep Pakistan from failing as a state, says the Atlantic Council. The Atlantic Council describes itself at its website as "promot[ing] constructive U.S. leadership and engagement in international affairs based on the central role of the Atlantic community in meeting the international challenges of the 21st century."

The Council is chaired by former Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., is honorary chairman.

The Council's report says that "we (presumably America) are running out of time to help Pakistan change its present course toward increasing economic and political instability, and even ultimate failure."

The Council is concerned that Pakistan is unable to curtail al-Qaida, which operates openly in many parts of Pakistan, and the Taliban, which recently took over Swat, a region the size of Delaware. About 3,000 Taliban managed to fight off 12,000 Pakistani troops, forcing Islamabad into a truce.

The Pakistani government agreed to a very dangerous compromise that allows the region to be governed according to Shariah law. In effect, this was a capitulation to the Taliban that greatly increased their stature among the militant tribes along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border. This now puts the U.S. military at greater risk along their vulnerable eastern flank and endangers their supply route that must go through part of that territory from the Khyber Pass. It has also left a safe haven for the leaders of al-Qaida.

The Taliban is now free to keep order in the region by using such barbaric punishments as floggings, stonings, beheadings, burning of schools and execution of women for infractions in the Western view are minor. These are things that supposedly the U.S. went to war to correct.

Under the terms of the accord, the chief minister of the province, Amir Haider Khan Hoti, said that Pakistani troops would now go on "reactive mode" and fight only in retaliation for an attack. In effect, these regions are now mini-states controlled by al-Qaida and the Taliban.

All of the above issues pale into insignificance compared to the danger of Pakistan's government failing and being taken over by the large number of Islamic Fundamentalists there.

If these Islamic fanatics take control of Pakistan's nuclear missiles, it will immediately be a much greater threat to the world than that posed by Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq put together.

Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is estimated to contain as many as 100 warheads. They have intermediate-range ballistic missiles to deliver them. They have also acquired the lethal nuclear-capable Babur cruise missiles. This year, Pakistan commissioned its first nuclear-missile capable submarine, the PNS Hamza. The Hamza can also fire Babur cruise missiles mounted with nuclear warheads.

So, what does it all mean? The big fear is that Pakistan's government will fall and be taken over by forces loyal to the Taliban and al-Qaida. Can you imagine what it would mean should Pakistan's considerable nuclear arsenal fall into the hands of al-Qaida?

I have always felt that we should have done everything possible to keep Gen. Musharraf in power. As one president rightly said, "He may be a S.O.B., but he is our S.O.B." He kept the Islamic militants at bay – something that the leaders the misinformed "human rights" activists pushed into power cannot do, no matter how much money we give them.

Anonymous said...

On the subject of Kellog, Root Brown why don't we talk about their really big contract at the time, the one with the Libyan government's great man made river project. Of course it was illegal at the time for a US company to work with Libya, those nasty traitors at their specially formed Bahamas company did it.

Always On Watch said...

In The Audacity of Hope, BHO said (or whoever wrote the book) stated something like "If the political winds shift, I will stand with the Muslims."

I read that section of the book. The context of the above statement: internment camps.

As a junior U.S. senator, could BHO have known something we don't know? Maybe.

In some circles, stories about round ups, railcars, and even foreign troops in our military has led to some heading for the hills right now (Selling their homes in this low market!) -- survivalists, you might say.

Let me see if I can find the video link somebody emailed to me a few weeks ago.

Always On Watch said...

the link I got

Always On Watch said...

Note: Other videos on the sidebar at the above link.

Always On Watch said...

Pastorius,
Could this news being released at this particular time, have anything to do with this story?

I see that the first story was released about a month ago, whereas the second was released yesterday.

Always On Watch said...

Last link I'll leave right now. More on the sidebar at this link too.

This stuff is all over YouTube and has a lot of viewers.

midnight rider said...

AoW -- only had time (for now) to watch part of the first video. Will watch all after work. But did some quick snoopin' about.

Here's the YouTube account for the lady in that first vid:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=valano72

And here's the Op 13:9 website itself:

http://www.operation13-9.com/page/page/6836553.htm

The group sounds like hardcore EndTimers (survivalists you mentioned) which is an awful lot like the Keating podcasts I mentioned above.

Anonymous said...

I seem to remember that NIN had links to this kind of thing when I first visited their site a couple of years ago, but they appear to have been removed. The experience of having legitimate investigation nearly overwhelmed by conspiracy theory chaos is all too familiar, however.


I can't discuss this here (Pasto knows about it; email me if you want further info) but I had the misfortune a few decades back to become involved with someone who turned out to be an alleged bit player in the whole NWO enterprise. Two things I learned: 1) it was impossible to get this individual prosecuted even with solid evidence of criminal activity and 2) it was virtually impossible to sort out truth from fantasy within the conspiracy subculture. I could rely only on information I knew to be factual from personal experience, and I finally had to just back away from it. As MR notes above you'd have people yammering away claiming inside knowledge of detention centers/End Times/Antichrist candidates/reptilian aliens/Tesla this, Tesla that and so on. I got so sick of hearing about the Illuminati that I can't even bring myself to read Dan Brown's "Angels and Demons". MR is right on the money here -- it is a shadow world, and even if you eliminate the obviously impossible you are still wandering in a maze.

We know what we are dealing with with regard to Islamism and socialism and the dangers they pose. Whatever is out there going bump in the night is probably of secondary importance even if it exists. If any of these theories are true we will find out soon enough. (I wouldn't be surprised at martial law from a Marx-influenced administration, but then the libs were screaming the same thing about Bush and it didn't happen.) How many of the conspiracy insiders who claim knowledge of these camps and railcars know about the network of al-Fuqra "homegrown jihad" compounds that has been thoroughly documented? I want that level of evidence/proof before I accept anything that smacks of conspiracy theory.

midnight rider said...

Revere -- yes, NEIN did have links to that. For awhile, listening to him on Keating's show and reading some stuff he wrote I thought Hagmann had bought into all of this. But after a bit it became a bit obvious he was pandering to her and her audience. He left the show abruptly and then much, though not all, of the conspiracy theory stuff stopped.

Keating quick making the show over a year ago and then this summer her website and it's archives all disappeared. I keep looking for them because they are a lesson in conspiracy theory paranoia.

I'd be interested in the info you allude to above (sans names if need be). I'll send you an email.