U. N. President Calls Homosexuality “Unacceptable” for World Community
New World Order
Muslim General Assembly Chief Condemns Gays
Treki Not Called to Task by Liberal Press
By
thelastcrusade.org
Ali Abussalam, the newly-installed president of the United Nations General Assembly, Ali Abdussalam Treki, said yesterday that homosexuality is “not really acceptable” and that homosexual acts should be treated as crimes.
Treki, who is the Libyan secretary of African Union Affairs, opened the 64th session of the United Nations General Assembly Friday with a press conference.
One question concerned the UN resolution which calls for the universal decriminalisation of homosexuality.
In reply, the new UN chief said:
“That matter is very sensitive, very touchy. As a Muslim, I am not in favour of it . . . it is not accepted by the majority of countries. My opinion is not in favour of this matter at all. I think it’s not really acceptable by our religion, our tradition.”
Attempting to clarify his remarks, Treki added: “It is not acceptable in the majority of the world. And there are some countries that allow that, thinking it is a kind of democracy . . . I think it is not.”
The ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs committee, Florida’s Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, told On Top Magazine: “The anti-gay bigotry spewed by this Qaddafi shill demonstrates once again that the UN has been hijacked by advocates of hate and intolerance.”
Gay and Right, a Canadian website for homosexuals and lesbians with conservative political leanings, funed: “Surprise, surprise! This is what you get when you choose a member of the Qaddafi mafia head of the UN General Assembly!”
Same sex intercourse is punishable by death in many Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Mauritania, Sudan, and northern Nigeria.
In Iran, more than 4,000 homosexuals have been excuted since the Islamic Revolution of 1979.
51 comments:
I agree with Muslims on this topic, but I don't agree that homo's should be killed.
Here's my two bits... It's none of my fucking business.
I don't want to have what anyone (except a select and chosen few) does in the bedroom shoved in my face, and that goes for exhibitionist morons as well as professional lesbians and gays.
I don't care if someone worships adult goats sexually as an adult ... as long as I don't have to hear that my grandchild just came home from kindergarten and a state mandated sexual goat worship understanding seminar since that would be as destructive to childhood as an Arianna Giovanni anatomy lesson for him.
People can do whatever the fuck they want otherwise. And those who think the bible gives them some right to damn others?
Talk to Barry Goldwater about that one.
I'm with him.
And THAT is the difference between CONSERVATIVE and the whacked out religious right.
For Epaminondas
You can have your list of exceptions but the whacked out religious right can't? Do you have any moral convictions in your body? If something is wrong, then it is wrong whether others know about it or not.
MEP
You're now hearing from the resident Objectivist atheist around here who wishes to point out to you that what two people choose to do with each other in private, so long as they are not violating one another's or anyone else's rights, is none of our damn business, or yours.
If you are going to give me the argument that your god does not like it, then tell your omniscient, omnipotent god to go wave his magic wand and make homosexuality disappear. If he pulls that one off I will be duly impressed and perhaps consider altering my entire metaphysical model of the universe to fit him in. Don't hold your breath.
And if you agree with the damn Muslims about the "crime", why don't you agree with the "punishment"? That's just a wee bit inconsistent on your part, isn't it?
revereridesagain
It all boils down to what you believe. My faith has moral standards and your faith doesn't.
It is funny how you can't seem to accept someone looking at a situation and walking away with some agreement and with some disagreement. I know the act of homosexuality is wrong, and I know the act of murder is also wrong. The end does not justify the means.
Homosexuals are not evil, nor is any other human being, but that does not mean that a human can not do evil things. I am simply saying that the act is wrong. Do you feel the same about murder? How can you say that murdering is bad if you have no basis for your opinion? If we are living in one big accident, then nothing we do can be wrong or right, so how can you be upset with my faith since it is just part of the evolution you adhere to and hold your allegiance to?
I need to preface this by explaining that I just got home an hour ago and the first thing I read on FOX was Elizabeth Smart's testimony of how some sex-crazed religious nut raped her repeatedly for several months, (which did not go down well on top of the testimony from Polanski's victim that I read last night), so THE LAST THING I NEED TO HEAR ABOUT RIGHT NOW, MEP, IS YOUR "FAITH", YOU SELF-RIGHTEOUS LITTLE JERK.
IN THE FIRST PLACE, I DO NOT HAVE A "FAITH". The philsophy is Objectivism, the philosopher is Ayn Rand, go read her if you want to know what it is about, which of course you don't. HOW DARE YOU SAY I HAVE NO BASIS FOR MY OPINION WHEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT MY BASIS IS? AND NO, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WASTING MY TIME "DISCUSSING" IT WITH YOU.
revereridesagain
Also, just because we are not directly affected by what someone does, does not mean that we are not affected by it. If that was the case, we would not be writing about this right now. The actions of people affect others in society because they set examples for others to follow. An example of this would be someone becoming an atheist because of the influence of writings, life events, or people surrounding them while growing up that may have had a bad outlook on organized religion. Actions are contagious things, good and bad.
So your basis is Ayn Rand? She has just about as much authority as I have, NONE.
Your childish rant is funny, though. I like how you threw it right when you were supposed to defend your theory.
Pastorius,
Just imagine the outcry from the hypocritical liberals, if this guy was a Christian. I have some problems with the left, but I sincerely hope that a few of them are not hypocrites here, and have the courage to stand by their convictions and condemn this.
MEP,
Who causes more problems in a church, a gay person who attends church, keeps his mouth shut about his life, etc., or a gossip?
And yet, we tolerate gossips in our churches, but we want to throw gays out?
What say you?
RRA,
I read that Roman Polanski thing the other day. What a disgusting pig he is.
Pastorius,
I sent this story to Rob Taylor, and he decided to do a thread of his own on it. Here's his take.
U.N. General Assembly Chief Says Homosexuality is Unacceptable
He mentions Infidel Blogger's Alliance by the way.
Pastorius,
Interestingly enough, he also mentions Roman Polanski, and his criminal conduct a few threads back.
Elitism, Europhilia, and Roman Polanski
a gossip is worse.
a gossip steals others good reputation something that once tarnished is hard to repair.
thier is an old jewish saying about hurting an others reputation~~
http://www.lukeford.net/Dennis/t4.html
An old Jewish teaching compares the tongue to an arrow: "Why not another weapon--a sword, for example?," one rabbi asks. "Because," he is told, "if a man unsheathes his sword to kill his friend, and his friend pleads with him and begs for mercy, the man may be mollified and return the sword to its scabbard. But an arrow, once it is shot, can not be resumed."
This comparison is more than a useful metaphor. Because words can be used to inflict devastating and irrevocable suffering, Jewish teachings go so far as to compare cruel words to murder. A penitent thief can return the money he has stolen; a murderer, no matter how sincerely he repents, can not restore his victim to life. Similarly, one who damages another's reputation through malicious gossip or who humiliates another publicly never fully can undo the damage.
Words, quite simply, are powerful. Indeed, the Bible teaches that God created the world through words. At the beginning of Genesis, we are told, "And God said, 'Let there be light,' and there was light." I would submit that human beings, like God, create with words. Consider the fact that most, if not all, of us have had the experience of reading a novel and being so moved by the fate of a character that we have cried, even though he or she doesn't exist. All that happened was that writer took a blank piece of paper, put words on it, and through them created a human being so totally real that he or she is capable of evoking our deepest emotions.
Words are powerful enough to lead to love, but can lead to hatred and terrible pain as well. We must be extremely careful how we use them.
A Jewish folktale, set in 19th-century Eastern Europe, tells of a man who went through a small community slandering the rabbi. One day, feeling suddenly remorseful, he begged the rabbi for forgiveness and offered to undergo any form of penance to make amends. The rabbi told him to take a feather pillow from his home, cut it open, and scatter the feathers to the wind. The man did as he was told and returned to the rabbi. He asked, "Am I now forgiven?"
"Almost," came the response. "You just have to perform one last task: Go and gather all the feathers."
"But that's impossible," the man protested, "for the wind has already scattered them."
"Precisely," the rabbi answered.
The rabbi in this story understands that words define our place in the world.
Once our place--in other words, our reputation--is defined, it is very difficult to change, particularly if it is negative.
Pres. Andrew Jackson, who, along with his wife, was the subject of relentless malicious gossip, once noted: "The murderer only takes the life of the parent and leaves his character as a goodly heritage to his children, while the slanderer takes away his goodly reputation and leaves him a living monument to his children's disgrace."
@MEP - "(except a select and chosen few)" That's called PORNO referenced SACRCASM.
Taking exception to the behavior of others which is none of your business because of personal religious objections IS A RESERVATION ON THE EXPRESS ELEVATOR TO HELL
And yes, that's a metaphor.
INTOLERANCE is all the same
Pastorius
I am not sure what church you go to, but tolerating gossip or anything bad is not christian. I don't remember Jesus confirming anyone in their sins, in fact I remember him admonishing the adulterous woman by telling her to go and sin no more.
All sins are equal since all lead to death if reconciliation is not obtained. Also, being gay is not a sin unless you act on those feelings just like temptation is not sin unless you fall victim to that temptation.
We are to love the sinner but "hate" the sin.
MEP,
You said: All sins are equal since all lead to death if reconciliation is not obtained.
I say: That is an astute answer, but it is not the answer to my question.
The Pharisees came to Jesus and condemned him for healing on the Sabbath. Doing anything active on the Sabbath is a sin.
There's also the time he and his disciples were picking food off vines on the Sabbath and the Pharisees condemned them for that.
The question is which hurts more?
You are right that gossip should not be tolerated. It is wrong, in my opinion, to conflate all sin into one thing, even though essentially all sin leads to death.
Pastorius
The question is not which hurts more. The question is, is homosexuality good or bad. You are straying from the original article. I say homosexual activity is bad, period.
I can not determine which act is worse than the other unless I am always present around the aftermath of each offense. And since I am not GOD, that is impossible for me to determine.
Pastorius
Jesus spoke the the Pharisees like they were children who thought they were wiser than their parents. The point of both the events you presented was that the work of the Lord is never idle. The Pharisees perverted the commandments given to Moses by expanding them to every day duties of the people, thus elevating man-made laws above GOD's law. They became too legalistic for there own good.
You lot still here?
Pasto
The Polanski thing just makes me sick. It should be no surprise when a competent artist is a total pig in his/her personal life, but it still stings.
So currently we have that case, Elizabeth Smart, and that creep Garrido who kidnapped and raped Jaycee Dugard 18 years ago. Polanski is a nihilist and a hedonist and the other two were spouting scripture. Sexual predators crawl out from under many different kinds of rocks.
Rumcock
Love the story. I usually love rabbi stories anyway, and that one is particularly poetic.
MEP
If you think blathering about how it is wrong to "elevate man-made laws above GOD's law" is superior to my "childish rant", let me point out to you that blindly following "God's law" leads to things like the murder of adulterers and other actions that civilized people renounced long ago because they had the moral courage to challenge such precepts. You gave yourself away when you stated that it is impossible for you to determine which act is worse because you are not GOD. You will never be able to make an independent moral judgment because you are incapable of thinking in principles, MEP. You will continue to parrot "GOD" for the rest of your life because the whole of your moral base adds us to "what He says".
Finding ourselves so often stuck between people like Polanski who pollute whatever they touch and sanctimonious holy robots such as you who want to offer a mental cage as an alternative can make some of us want to just give up until we remember what is at stake. I fear the Islamist because he is literally out to kill me, but you represent a diluted dose of the same poison.
"Hate the sin but love the sinner"? MEP, I wouldn't go anywhere near you or whatever slimy group that supports you without the proverbial whip and chair. And a large bottle of bleach.
MEP,
You do not have absolutely no moral responsibility in thinking over the actions of another in a situation involving church members. You know that is not true. It says, go to them in private, then go with a brother, and if they do not repent tell the whole church and kick them out.
Which sin is worse, murder or picking wheat on the Sabbath to feed the hungry?
Pastorius
Picking wheat on the Sabbath to feed the hungry is not a sin, so I can not equate the two in your question. But yes, sinning is worse than good.
revereridesagain
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I just felt my IQ drop about 50 points just by reading your last post. I promise, I will never respond to you again. I can't afford to lose anymore of my IQ.
MEP,
You ought to hang around here a bit. We have a blogger here named BabbaZee who is a Jewish believer in Yeshua (Jesus). Babba knows the Bible, and the Mishnah, and the Talmud much better than I.
What you would be surprised to find (though if you had studied Theology, you would already have some idea of this fact), is that when we were created in the Image of God, it means we have reason, will, and creativity just like God. The Jewish scriptures in the Mishnah are very revealing if you want to understand who Jesus was and why he said and did the things he said and did.
I believe that we Gentile Christians will not come to have a fullness of understanding of Christ until our Jewish brothers start coming to believe Yeshua was indeed their Messiah, which would bring them to a point where they could start explaining the mysteries of the Bible to we Gentiles.
Human beings are expected to work out their salvation in fear and trembling, which means we are supposed to wrestle with ideas and their consequences. There are usually not easy answers in any situation. And, in a fallen world, doing the best thing, the right thing, the moral thing, often leads to pain. Our world is not fit for perfect Goodness.
However, as you know, God brings right out of wrong.
MEP,
The Sabbath is a day of rest. You are not supposed to do anything on the Sabbath. Reason must be used to determine what the meaning of "not doing anything" is.
Your reason tells you that picking wheat on the Sabbath to feed the hungry is not a sin. I agree with you. My reason tells me the same thing.
@MEP "The question is, is homosexuality good or bad. "
No it's not.
It's WHO ARE YOU to decide?
It's who is James Dobson to decide?
It's who is Pat Robertson to decide?
It's who is Muhammad to decide?
Or Tantawi and Qaradawi?
And just in case... it's who WROTE THE BIBLE to decide?
MEN. Men no better or worse than me.
And you.
And we have NO RIGHT to dictate to others their behavior when consenting adults do what they do.
Why not rate anal sex between men and women identically to homosexuality? Oral sex (of any kind)?
Why would that be better for society than same sex? Same act.
It's all ABSURD.
Pastorius,
I reference this site at least 10 times a day, minus the weekends. I think you and I would agree a lot more than we would disagree on theology and faith. I have listened to a Messianic Rabbi's teachings for about 2 years now and know a good bit about the Jewish traditions and how Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant and ushered in the New Covenant which does not do away with the old but compliments it.
I love the Jewish faith, since our Christian faith is rooted in
Judaism.
But I think you are wrong on who will lead who to the Truth (Jesus). Paul specifically writes about the anguish he deals with because the majority of his own people will not accept the New Covenant. It is clear that Paul was tasked to preach to the gentiles so that the gentiles will be blessed and cause the Jews to be jealous and eventually accept Jesus. For it is said that Jesus will not be seen again until the Jewish nation is saying, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord".
MEP,
How does that contradict what I said? I didn't say the Jews will lead us to Christ. I said the Jews will help us understand the Bible.
If you know the passages where Paul speaks of his anguish that his brothers will not listen to him, then you know this:
Romans 11 (New International Version)
Romans 11
The Remnant of Israel
1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3"Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"[a]? 4And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."[b] 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.[c]
7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day."[d] 9And David says:
"May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever."[e]
Ingrafted Branches
11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
All Israel Will Be Saved
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."[g]
Epaminondas
Why not rate anal sex between men and women identically to homosexuality? Oral sex (of any kind)?
For me, they are rated equally. Same for fornication, masturbation, adultery, heavy drinking, heavy drug use.
I know, I know. How dare I, right.
MEP,
Where do you get the idea the Bible says Oral Sex is wrong? I must have missed that one.
Song of Solomon Chapter 4
1 How beautiful you are, my darling!
Oh, how beautiful!
Your eyes behind your veil are doves.
Your hair is like a flock of goats
descending from Mount Gilead.
2 Your teeth are like a flock of sheep just shorn,
coming up from the washing.
Each has its twin;
not one of them is alone.
3 Your lips are like a scarlet ribbon;
your mouth is lovely.
Your temples behind your veil
are like the halves of a pomegranate.
4 Your neck is like the tower of David,
built with elegance [a] ;
on it hang a thousand shields,
all of them shields of warriors.
5 Your two breasts are like two fawns,
like twin fawns of a gazelle
that browse among the lilies.
6 Until the day breaks
and the shadows flee,
I will go to the mountain of myrrh
and to the hill of incense.
Pastorius
All the prophets were Jewish and so were the first apostles, so I guess you can already say that they have lead us to a better understanding of faith in general.
I believe anyone, by the grace of GOD, can lead us to a better understanding of the Bible, so I agree that Jews can help us better understand the Bible.
I agree with the passage you posted below. Our goal is to bring the Jewish nation to Jesus so that we will all have life from the dead.
1Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Pastorius
Are you a sola scriptura guy? I am not, so the idea does not have to be in the Bible.
Oral sex is a form of sexual expression, and this expression separates the act from the intended purpose of sexual union.
MEP,
Are you Catholic. The reason I ask is because if I am not mistaken that reasoning on Oral Sex is in the Cathechism, which I have read.
No, I would not call myself a sola scriptura guy. In fact, as far as I'm concerned that's kind of the point I have been trying to make here.
I think we can, and in fact, are required to us our reason to make moral inferences, when situations are not cut and dry.
Pastorius
Soon to be Catholic next Easter, formerly Lutheran. I do agree that this is not very cut and dry but my ascent of faith goes to the Church teachings first. The Magisterium of the Church, at least for Catholics, must be the final authority. I agree with you that reason and intelligence was given to us to use but our intelligence and understanding is finite. Each person's interpretation of a given topic is what leads to what we call "Cafeteria Catholics". I am sure you know what I mean.
Thanks for your input.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Here's the thing. Free Will is messy. We can try to be good and do the right thing, but we're all going to screw things up, even sometimes when we think we're doing the right thing.
In order to do anything, we have to be willing to make mistakes.
That's just the fact of life. The consequence of Free Will.
Benedict has great stuff to say on these topics. I love Benedict. I've read several of his books, and I also keep the Cathechism handy all the time.
That is a good way to end it. Take care.
MEP
@MEP
"Soon to be Catholic next Easter, formerly Lutheran. I do agree that this is not very cut and dry but my ascent of faith goes to the Church teachings first. The Magisterium of the Church, at least for Catholics, must be the final authority. I agree with you that reason and intelligence was given to us to use but our intelligence and understanding is finite. Each person's interpretation of a given topic is what leads to what we call "Cafeteria Catholics". I am sure you know what I mean."
Mep, for many years I had in depth discussions with many arabs in the gulf, and on a wide range of subjects. Some of them tried to be very kind and patient in their explanation of why certain things were black and white, and your arguments parallel theirs PRECISELY ..especially striking is that last explanation ..a salafi Imam who predicted one day I would embrace Islam told me that men's free will was meant by God to be as if we were in a house. We could do do anything we wished in that house, but we could never go outside that house. The house was defined by the Quran as the final word, much like the magisterium as you define it
Of course it is MEN who take on faith what god set as this house, and are told this by other men.
The idea that fornication is, like murder, wrong in the mind of god seems to be, when told this by other men, to be such a great arrogance that it is as likely to be punishable for just that reason by the same god.
I think I'll stick to the 10 first rules, they don't mention blow jobs, homosexuality, or anything of the like ... but if we all just hewed to that, rather than worry about OTHER'S BEHAVIORS the world might improve a wee bit.
Epaminondas
I can see your point but I don't agree with the parallel you are drawing between Islam and Christianity. I will not do you any harm for your belief or disbelief. I can't nor want to; you are my brother. Nor will I treat you as a lesser being and torment you until submission. We are equal in dignity, no matter what.
MEP,
I'm having a hard time understanding why, if you are not a sola scriptura person, you still refuse to believe in a hierarchy of sins.
It seems reasonable to me to acknowledge that some sins are worse than others.
Sin itself separates us from God, but not all sins have the same consequences to those around us. And, our Mission here on Earth is to help each other. Therefore, it would seem obvious that the less we hurt others, the better we are doing.
Pastorius
I believe all mortal sins are equal and all venial sins are equal but the two types are not. I say all mortal sins are equal because they result in the same ending, unless reconciled.
Does that suffice?
Our mission on Earth is to obtain a supernatural end in the presence of GOD. I plan to go to hell for no one. I will help whoever wants the help and then more but I can't make them swallow the pill. I wish Heaven for everyone including those that reject it but confirming someone in their sins is not help and that millstone will get real heavy very quickly.
@mep ..punishment/harm is the back half of judgment.
In that, and based on the word of men I see little difference
MEP,
You said: Our mission on Earth is to obtain a supernatural end in the presence of GOD. I plan to go to hell for no one.
I say: That "supernatural end in the presence of God is played out in the natural, physical world.
As is expressed below.
The Sheep and the Goats
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Pastorius
I said what our mission is and I am correct. The target is Heaven. I did not say that the means to that end were not to do good to the least of our brothers. I totally agree with the scripture you provided. I am sorry that I did not spell out to you what I thought was a given for all Christians.
What exactly are you trying to prove here?
I think many Christians are too involved in Heaven. I think Heaven inside you already. It was, is, and is to come. God's Kingdom is where He reigns. If He reigns in Your Heart, you will be filled with Peace.
That's what matters more than future Heaven.
I think people who concern themselves with how they are going to be rewarded in heavy are turning things upside down. The Last Shall Be First, so how can we concern ourselves with Crowns and positions at tables and stuff like that? It's the opposite of what we're supposed to be thinking about, which is helping people.
Epaminondas: BRAVO!!!
Pastorius
I agree that our Heaven or Hell starts here on Earth. A simple definition of Grace is a share in GOD's divine life. We are truly a tabernacle for the Holy Spirit. There is a term called circuminsession which means that where one of the persons of the Trinity is, so also are the other two.
Heaven is not sure thing for anyone though, since we all sin and can fall out of the grace of GOD. If we take our eyes off the target, we will likely not hit it.
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." This last verse makes my argument. You are either a winner or a loser in the end. Heaven or Hell. The mission is getting to Heaven and the means to obtain that is abiding by Jesus' commandments including the original 10. I understand what you are saying and I agree. I am just separating the means from the mission and you are saying the same thing but making everything we do part of the mission.
If I had a mission in the military to evacuate a certain individual, and I failed to do that because of any reason, then the mission is a failure, even if I was able to take out a few bad guys in the process or provide intel to headquarters. Some good may have come from it but ultimately, the mission was not a success.
Epaminondas
You are assuming that all judgment is bad. Punishment and harm do not come from a judgment that declares an act good.
I see you don't have much faith in mankind, that is a good thing. I totally agree.
But where do you put your faith?
Pastorius
Our last few postings bring us full circle back to the original article. Since the Holy Spirit dwells in us, since the Blessed Sacrament is our spiritual nourishment, and since our bodies are a sacred host for our Lord, why would you desecrate the tabernacle of the Lord in any of the ways brought up earlier in this post. Sexuality is a way humans enter into the procreation of GOD by bringing forth life. Anything that violates that sacred act is from the devil and has no use for good. I think that you would agree that in today's age, Satan has a pretty good idea of what he is doing to gain souls.
This would apply only to Christians since others do not accept these sayings.
MEP,
You're right. We're only repeating ourselves at this point, so I'll stop. I understand what you're saying.
Thanks.
Take care.
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