For the record, neither Pamela Geller nor I were at this clearly poorly organized and ill-conceived protest yesterday. Neither of us had anything to do with organizing it or planning it in any way. Geller declares:"... I have no idea what this rally is. I have no idea who these people are. I have no idea who organized this rally. Clearly, whoever organized this was careless, unprepared, shooting from the hip and harmful to the cause of freedom and compassion. I wasn't even in the state, nor did I know anything about this half-assed effort.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/
That's just fine. If Geller wants to distance herself from a rally she had nothing to do with, it's right and proper that she do so in public. She is a private individual with a right to protect herself from false accusations of being associated with people she is not associated with. Beyond that, who cares what Pamela Geller thinks? Her friends do. Rightly so. Others? I don't think anyone cares what she says. Rightly so.
Geller writes above:
I have no idea what this rally is. I have no idea who these people are. I have no idea who organized this rally. Clearly, whoever organized this was careless, unprepared, shooting from the hip and harmful to the cause of freedom and compassion.
I'm sure that most Americans have no idea who Pamela Geller is, and if they did, I'm sure most would see her as yet one more America with an opinion with just as much right to express it as any other. Beyond that, unless people have some private concern for Geller's opinions, all she has is opinion, good or bad, but not anything anyone has to pay attention to just because her name is Pamela Geller.
I too have no idea what this rally is. So what? If people want to have a rally, they'll have a rally. If Geller thinks it makes her look bad, that's entirely up to her to feel about it as she will, and for her friends to sympathise with her if they care to. If those who organised this rally are indeed "careless, unprepared, shooting from the hip, and cetera, that's their right, as it's Geller's right to express her opinion of them and for others to decide as they will. The point is, Geller in not anyone any more important here than anyone else. Others might well not be well-prepared, and such is the way of it. Geller can say what she likes. So can others. It all comes to much the same thing.
The hack cited at the link above is out of line. He's a different story.
But to criticise "the masses" for having a rally Geller doesn't approve of is not interesting to anyone else but her and her friends. If there are a million rallies, and if Geller disapproves of all of them, Geller's disapproval is not important. What is important is that there be rallies of citizens, whether Geller likes them or not, and for whatever reason. Geller is not responsible for other people's rallies, and they are not responsible for the things she does. She is very likely thankful for that.
17 comments:
The point was not that someone else had a rally. The point was that some black guy was attacked there, and Max Blumenthal blamed Pamela for this incident at a rally she had nothing to do with. Did this point really elude you, or did you find it inconvenient to acknowledge?
I can see why Pamela got so angry:
MaxBlumenthal: Pam Geller's pogromists harass, nearly assault black man mistaken as Muslim@Ground Zero rally.
I know that Pamela is working very hard on the GZM and SIOA issues. In fact, she's gotten coverage about the GZM on every news network (CNN included). I can't blame her for not wanting her work tied to the demonstration yesterday.
The trouble at yesterday's rally may well be covered by the msm. Guess we'll find out today.
Something else that worries me: such trouble can break out at any rally (Tea Party, GZM, whatever), IMO. And I also think that the msm are just waiting for some kind of trouble to break out so as to discredit the original intent of the rally.
I see that CBS Morning News will be covering yesterday's rally in a few minutes.
Gaffney appeared to be there ..he was on Fox yesterday AM, and sso was Deb Burlingame but who knows what if anything THEY had to do with this.
It probably doesn't even matter if the claimed EVENT happened to this black man. After all no one has shown a tea party or other person shouting racist slogans at the congressmen enroute to the capital, yet that has been accepted as fact by too many already.
Such protests had better be organized in a way to stress and enforce hyper alertness to uncontrolled contact, since there are too many useful idiots already.
These idiots will seize on anything to use as a distraction.
I'd ignore it besides a statement pointing out in neutral language that the author (Blumenthal) is a factless, biased, hack, and that the accusation is patently false.
Pam ought to avoid "notorious Jew hater". It makes HER sound out of control, and I've seen her IN CONTROL, and that's a far more effective Pam.
A thousand people in a city of >7 million when 60%+ are against this thing is a pretty lousy effort.
IMHO
It is a little suspicious that there was a rally against the Mosque which was so hastily organized and announced AFTER THE 9/11 RALLY AGAINST THE MOSQUE WAS ALREADY ORGANIZED.
Why was there another rally organized?
Could it have been some sort of setup?
Or was it organized by people who do not want to participate in a rally that Pamela has already promoted?
Think about it.
They are desperate to shut down the revolt against this mosque fast enough to defuse the issue by November. That includes the divide-and-conquer tactics of trying to set us against each other, making a lightning rod of the most prominent spokespeople against the mosque (especially Pam) the deafening shrieks about "Islamophobia" that have now reached every news-stand via the cover of TIME, dragging in a bunch of "Internationalist" commies to act as supporters of the mosque, cranking up the infiltrators and mis-directionists, and sinking to the level of telling 9/11 family members, first responders, and the rest of us to "get over it".
As awareness of the Islamist threat grows there will be more protests, and some will come off better than others. That's unavoidable and shouldn't be allowed to distract. A lot of people are lazy and would love an excuse to keep ignoring the jihad.
I don't blame Pam for being totally ticked off at Bloo-menthal and other collaborationist idiots like him. But don't let them set us against each other. It is really horrifying to see how deep the Islamist infiltration has gone in the media, academia, politics, the military, and it will take everything and everyone we have to clean out the poison.
I guess I see this a wee bit differently. Clearly, the SIOA org. activities, blog, book marketing, litigation for advertisements, msm appearances, related travel, correspondence, e-mail, telephone, twitter, etc. leaves precious little time or opportunity for Geller to carefully address unwarranted attacks like that issued by this pathetic slimy ill informed/ignorant opportunist, Blumenthal.
Here's where I differ - Not everyone reads or cares about Blumenthal or Dowd etc. Not everyone (yet) reads Spencer or Atlas or Infidel Bloggers Alliance. Those against the proposed GZ project who attended yesterday's rally may have become familiar with the dangers of sharia encroachment from any one of a growing number of groups/blogs, columns, organizations (FDNY, hard hat, ACT! for America, Deb Burlingame, etc) all of which are deeply concerned with unwelcome Islamic intrusions, sharia and the obvious deception of the one way street demanded in Islam - called 'tolerance'.
Yes, Geller and Spencer have become the face of the counter-sharia, counter-jihad movement . . .to some-not all - yet.
To attack this 'other' rally, which demonstrated the growing awareness and vocaliztion of a segment of society, a segment expanding exponentially in size, awareness and opinion -after nearly nine long silent and tolerant years - who finally feel safe to openly discuss sharia, discuss Islam, discuss the impossible demands for tolerance of the most intolerant creed on the face of this planet - to attack them for 'lack of organization' or to dismiss them as unworthy because it didn't seek Geller's approval is unwarranted. We should celebrate every rally against the Ground Zero mosque. I hope there is a new one every day, and that the number of attendants at each rally against the mosque doubles, triples, quintuples at each subsequent rally.
Geller has every right to refute, pound Blumenthal deep into the sand pits he crawled out from, but not at the expense of divesting from individuals who became aware of sharia encroachments from other sources.
Welcome these folks to the table and invite them to review the pitfalls and dangers that lie ahead. Spencer and Geller have a wealth of experience and tips to offer in support of these rallies to teach attendants how to spot trouble and how to address it.
Support those who are trying to voice their concerns about sharia and jihad and tolerance for the intolerant.
HRW
Let me make it clear. I am not attacking the group that rallied yesterday.
I am only saying, I understand how Pamela could be concerned about not wanting to be associated with them.
The concern, on my part, would be that that group may be like the fake "Tea Parties". You know, the ones set up by Libs to undermine the real Tea Party movement.
Don't put it past Leftist, aligned with Stealth Jihadists, to organize such groups.
That being said, it does not seem like yesterday's rally was led by such a group.
I understood your point Pas, yes, we All should be very aware of our surroundings at these rallies, and be on the lookout for saboteurs.
But I read this directly after leaving Pam's post about Blumenthal. Her acid defense splashed caustic criticism against yesterday's organizers. Her defense was necessary and understandable, but unecessarily over-reaching.
I stopped reading Debbie Schlussel because of her caustic posts flaming counter-jihad, counter-sharia bloggers on a routine basis. I'm certain others have stopped frequenting counter-sharia/counter-jihad blogs, having tired of similar scaley in-fighting.
all the best -
HRW
Gee Dag, how could you be so dense. Blumenthal clearly only wants Czechoslovakia.
Geller was right to distance herself from something that she wasn't involved. And wrong to make judgements based on Blumenthal's reporting. One would have thought that she knew better.
That rally yesterday was awesome. And, as my video shows, there was even a black speaker. There were also black audience members. If someone got attacked it wasn't because of their race. I saw a counter protester get hit by an umbrella. He was white.
Oh, and by the way, as the video likely shows. There were barracades and police and a great sound system. I meant his thing was properly organized.
To say we cannot hold a rally until it is guarenteed that no minority will be insulted is insane. It was a great rally and I give great credit to the organizers for pulling off a fantastic event.
Question? Was their publicity on this issue in media yesterday or not? That in my book, (not literally), is a good thing.
CJ
This seems to be the same rally Culturist John was at and, I think, helped organize. So I don't believe it was a setup fake rally.
And, as another post by John several dowon from this shows it was not half assed (as Pam, who wasn't there, states) but hastily arranged. So I find Spencer being a bit disengenuous when he states the point was that some black man was attacked, not the rally itself. Pam clearly had a problem with the rally as Dag shows in her opening paragraph.
That said, Pam, of course, clearly has every right to defend herself if slandered and distance herself from whatever she wants.
But to dump on a rally for a cause she abslutely believes in because she didn't like how it was done was wrong headed. She and Robert are not the only nor end all voices on this (or anything in the counter jihad). They should support and applaud the effort, make suggestions for better ways to handle it, but not slam it. THAT hurts the cause of freedom and can cause division among the ranks which is something we absolutely do not need. If you have a problem with how the rally was handled, find out who the organizers were (in this case I just told you where to start) and take the matter up off line.
Personally, I'd like to see rallies every day in every city until this thing is stopped. Pickets 24/7. And I couldn't care less if RObert or Pamela were within a thousand miles of them as long as the message is getting out and being kept in the right faces.
Robert Spencer writes:
"The point was not that someone else had a rally. The point was that some black guy was attacked there, and Max Blumenthal blamed Pamela for this incident at a rally she had nothing to do with."
I think I make it plain that Blumenthal is not worth discussing, given his open dishonesty; thus I wrote about what I think is the essential point. Spencer writes:
"Did this point really elude you, or did you find it inconvenient to acknowledge?"
I don't think I'm either stupid or dishonest, though I could easily be wrong on both counts.
My point, again, is that not all anti-jihadis are going to reach the level of sophistication of Spencer's efforts. I find that encouraging: that people with no skill as organisers and leaders are taking it upon themselves to organise and lead anyway. I made clear that people such as Geller have every right to distance themselves from others if they are unfairly associated. They have a right, and a proper point, in showing that have no part in an "amateurish" protest.
My point, which I think is clear, is that even amateurs have a right to protest. I am in full support of it, even if it makes professionals "look bad." This is a movement for all people who feel, however crudely, that their lives are in danger and that our nation is threatened by jihad. Professionals will have to share the stage of the nation with such people. They will have to, and do, and should, distance themselves as they will. I still support the masses in their ignorance and amateurishness.
Personally, though I love and appreciate her, I resent Geller's remarks. As my video below hopefully shows, this was a kick butt rally. It was all focused on Sharia. The crowd was huge and the speakers well informed.
As Pamela says, she was in another state. She should know better than to believe media reports about rallies. And while hers got less coverage than this one does not break my heart. The mosque is getting more and more attention. She is part of the reason. She should celebrate our success, not bash her fellow culturists!
By the way, though I helped conceive of a little thing after and did the video, I was not involved in the organizing of this rally. But I'd be proud to say I was.
Dag --
I second that. Amen, brother.
I knew you were involved, CJ, just wasn't sure to what extent.
I hope that we can now put this incident to rest and carry on from here.
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