Wednesday, October 11, 2006

New York Times Says Europe Is Beginning To Wake Up

Thanks to the Astute Bloggers for making me aware of this article from the New York Times:


BRUSSELS, Oct. 10 — Europe appears to be crossing an invisible line regarding its Muslim minorities: more people in the political mainstream are arguing that Islam cannot be reconciled with European values.

“You saw what happened with the pope,” said Patrick Gonman, 43, the owner of Raga, a funky wine bar in downtown Antwerp, 25 miles from here. “He said Islam is an aggressive religion. And the next day they kill a nun somewhere and make his point.

“Rationality is gone.”

Mr. Gonman is hardly an extremist. In fact, he organized a protest last week in which 20 bars and restaurants closed on the night when a far-right party with an anti-Muslim message held a rally nearby.

His worry is shared by centrists across Europe angry at terror attacks in the name of religion on a continent that has largely abandoned it, and disturbed that any criticism of Islam or Muslim immigration provokes threats of violence.

For years those who raised their voices were mostly on the far right. Now those normally seen as moderates — ordinary people as well as politicians — are asking whether once unquestioned values of tolerance and multiculturalism should have limits.

Now Europeans are discussing the limits of tolerance, the right with increasing stridency and the left with trepidation.

Austrians in their recent election complained about public schools in Vienna being nearly full with Muslim students and blamed the successive governments that allowed it to happen.

Some Dutch Muslims have expressed support for insurgents in Iraq over Dutch peacekeepers there, on the theory that their prime loyalty is to a Muslim country under invasion.


So strong is the fear that Dutch values of tolerance are under siege that the government last winter introduced a primer on those values for prospective newcomers to Dutch life: a DVD briefly showing topless women and two men kissing. The film does not explicitly mention Muslims, but its target audience is as clear as its message: embrace our culture or leave.

Perhaps most wrenching has been the issue of free speech and expression, and the growing fear that any criticism of Islam could provoke violence.

In France last month, a high school teacher went into hiding after receiving death threats for writing an article calling the Prophet Muhammad “a merciless warlord, a looter, a mass murderer of Jews and a polygamist.” In Germany a Mozart opera with a scene of Muhammad’s severed head was canceled because of security fears.

With each incident, mainstream leaders are speaking more plainly. “Self-censorship does not help us against people who want to practice violence in the name of Islam,” Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany said in criticizing the opera’s cancellation. “It makes no sense to retreat.”


If "more people in the political mainstream are arguing that Islam cannot be reconciled with European values," then what is the solution to the problem? Considering the fact that, in many European nations, Muslims will become the majority within the next 20-40 years, what can be done? Are these "people in the political mainstream" saying that there will be no European values 40 years from now?

I don't think that is what they are thinking.

Truth is, I don't think they are allowing themselves to know what they are thinking. They refuse to even articulate their thoughts in the privacy of their own minds.

What is the solution, when there is no solution? What did Spain do in 1492?

11 comments:

Krishna109 said...

I had not seen that article until just now, but it seems to me that there were some signs of a changing attitude amongst many Europeans...starting fairly recently. This shift seems to be especially noticeable in Britain--several public figures have criticized certain things that they would not have previously (for example Straw's criticism of wearing the veil).

Recently there was an article somewhere (don't remember where I saw it) that claims that the recent discovery of that massive plot to hijack airliners got a lot of British to start thinking. (Many had dismissed the london tube bombing as one "isolated incident"...but I think many are realizing its not the last)

I had the impression that the media and the police depts were amongst the most dhimmified sectors in Britain-- it seems that now, at least the police are starting to change.

I wonder what the solution is? I had been thinking that if people get upset enough, they might place strong restrictions on immigration-- but it seems they may need workers (or is this just political spin?).

The only other thing I can think of is to stand up to Muslim demands. The more the establishment gves in, the more demands they make. (I also think a lot of Europeans though if they compromised, their Moslem populations would be peaceful-- and would also compromise-- and many Europeans are now realizing that this is not the case. (Actually, I believe this is similar to the realizations the Israelis had-- several decades ago!)

In fact, some Europeans realize all the concessions they have made-- and the lack of positive change on the part of their Muslim population in return -- and some are starting to resent it.

Krishna109 said...

In the previous comment, I was thinking of several recent articles about changing European attitudes. I also had remembered one here on IBA-- I just looked for it and found it-- here it is.

While any one of the things mentioned, by itself, certainly doesn't indicate a major shift in attitude, the fact that several things mentioned are occuring at once seems to indicate that recently perhaps many Europeans have started to wake up.

Kiddo said...

Pastorius, I agree completely. La Reconquista all over again, but this time before the nations fall. Brilliant article, and I think that the question is quite appropriate for our time. People are starting to think those heretofore unthinkable thoughts, those subversive thoughts of expulsion and deportation. And not out of famine, disease or even true xenophobia, as has happened in the past. This time the tide is turning because self-preservation is becoming once again acknowledged as a virtue.

I've said it before and I say it again now, let those who think in the outdated modes continue their protests to what is becoming the new worldview for the West. Let them spit and sputter, and keep marching right on by. They will crumble to dust as do all things whose time is dead. We will continue and our ranks will increase, and that cannot be stopped now.

I know I pound this one a lot, but Ali Sina really was right about Muslims shooting themselves in the foot by not being able to handle criticism. The cartoonifada really woke up a lot of people, and now as the man in the article said, after the Pope's speech they kill a nun and prove his point. I really think that they either thought they were stronger and up against less or they made a huge blunder by uncorking that bottle of rage.

Boy am I rambling on. I should actually go write something on my blog.....ROFL (I hope you guys get the joke about my sorry lazy ass)

Pastorius said...

PG,
Ramble away. I think they just aren't smart enough to know what fools they make of themselves, and thank God for that fact.

They have done us all a big, big favor. They have saved us billions of bullets, millions of bombs, and hundreds of thousands of lives with their silliness.

We have come so much closer to victory, just because they are so stupid.

VadimM said...

Pastorius,
How about this for starters (solution wise) - Europe stops granting citizenship on "family ties" basis, and if it does grant it, then put it on probation (for a period of 3 - 5 years). If the new citizen breaks the law, the citizenship is revoked immediately, and deportation measures are considered in form of warning, soccer style: you break the law once (even get a parking ticket) - you are warned; you break the law for the second time -you go home.

Jason Pappas said...

First comes the confusion: the cognitive dissonance between the PC propaganda and daily events in the news. Then comes moderate steps: tests for immigrants, searching everyone at airports, etc. At that point we hear some grumbling about the problem but still only token gestures to deal with it. This is the learning stage and we, who know, are getting damn impatient with those still in denial. It is maddening.

Europe will be the first battlefield. It will be interesting to see what they do. The longer they wait the tougher the action required to deal with the problem. Knowing European history, I tend to think they’ll swing from one extreme to the other before they get it right. From Weimar Germany sprung Hitler’s Germany. While I don’t believe they’ll swing to that extreme, there will be internal strife for some time to come.

An interesting contrast is Israel. She’s been able to accommodate a 20% Arab population while fighting several wars against Arab aggression. That’s highly unusual in human history. However, until the Iranian sponsored Hezbollah attacks, Israel was losing the will to survive. Unwilling to go against world pressure, she continues to allow the enemy to encamp on her border within the West Bank. When we stop asking Israel to slowly die, we’ll have found the will to survive.

But while Europe makes Israel live with constant attacks from the enemy, I don’t think Europe will lie down and passively take it for long. Eastern Europe has no intention of submitting again after their liberation from Communism. It’s the Western part, after years of self-vilification, that has lost the will to live … for now. Watch out for that swing to the other extreme. Trial and error is a bitch. I prefer to learn from history. There's not much we can do until we wake other people up to the problem.

VadimM said...

Jason,
In Israel we, the public, have zero tolerance towards what is called "Israeli arabs", or as they call themselves "Israeli Palestinians". The problem is that our center-left governments let these enemies from within do and say whatever they please, in the name of democracy. But the "Israeli arabs" just went too far with their expression of sympathy to hizballah, and as all around the world, they have shown what their true intentions are. Even the most left oriented of my friends now admit their mistake. These inner relations will play a major role in the next elections. We'll see how it goes. I think that the trend, which have just sprang in Europe, will emerge threefold strond in Israel.

Kiddo said...

Well, all of us outside of Europe have read about or seen video of the "soccer hooligans". Don't tell me Europe's population doesn't have the shock troops necessary to beat these thugs back, even if those in control for now do not like it.

Remember as well how Hitler came to power, how his appeal grew. He was an ALTERNATIVE offered to the Marxists and their violence at the time, a hope for an economically depressed country, etc. When things get bad enough anything is possible. Any economic problems severe enough, and natural conditions of upheaval, any of the usual triggers, and I think you will see a major reaction.

As it is, I think that the "youths" are turning the tide of public opinion with their actions, which they seem COMPLETELY unable to grasp as something that would make Westerners not see it their way. They are clueless.

Jason Pappas said...

Thanks, Vadimm. I’ve noticed a change after the Hizballah attacks and I hope it lasts. After all, the withdrawal from Lebanon was supposed to solve the problem with attacks from that direction. It’s obvious that that theory has failed. Now we around the world have got to rein in our leftist appeasers … for all our sakes.

Good point, Pim. I think the Europeans still have the right stuff to fight back. Let’s hope they do it sooner and remain on target. Again, the left-appeasers will hold them back up to a point. But let’s not complain too much. After all, the left will just seal their fate as an anachronistic ideology. Two birds with one stone!

Pastorius said...

Jason,
Yes, let's hope they remain on target. My big fear is that anger at Muslims will also be taken out on real Asians, Indians, and Jews. Oh yes, and I'm sure there are many black Christians in Europe as well.

An Armenian Christian friend of mine, here in the U.S., told me the other day that he gets people saying things to him like, "Hey, you fucking Middle Easterner, get out of our country."

Spillover, that's what I'm worried about.

Kiddo said...

Pastorius, I've worried about it since 9/11. Drives me crazy.