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Governments are instituted among Men,
deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,
it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,
and to institute new Government

Wednesday, November 29, 2006

Straight from the Dhimmi’s Mouth

UPDATE: We were absolutely wrong with this post, and we offer our correction and apology at this link.

And here we have a shining demonstration of the problem:

Christians must ‘let go’ some beliefs for sake of peace, theologian says, via LGF.

To live peacefully with Muslims and Jews, Christians must put aside the notion that their faith requires the creation of a Christian kingdom on Earth, a Lipscomb University theologian told an interfaith gathering at the university.

“We are not going to get very far in our relationship with Jews or Muslims if we do not let go of this idea,” Lipscomb professor Lee Camp said at Tuesday’s conference.

The unusual gathering of several dozen clergy and lay people was devoted to resolving religious conflict in Nashville and around the world.

“We need to forsake the Christendom model,” Camp said. “The most basic Christian commitment ... is that we say we believe in the Lordship of Jesus. But, if we claim that, how can a Muslim or Jew trust us, if we say Jesus is the Lord of all Lords?” ...

First, Christians must examine their “sins of omission,” he said — such as not taking the time to learn about other religions. Then they must look at their “sins of commission.”

“We have such short historical (memory) spans as white Christians,” he said. “There is a history of anti-Semitism, the violence and bloodshed of the crusades and cultural imperialism. We have to deal with the reality of what Christians have done, which in some cases has been to kill people.”

So many instances of stupidity one just doesn’t know where to begin, so I’ll do them by order of appearance.

To live peacefully with Muslims and Jews,

Yes, bring up the “and Jews” bit so it doesn’t look like you’re biased against Muslims. The fact that Jews don’t burn Iranian embassies every time they do their Holocaust cartoons is of no relevance.

“We need to forsake the Christendom model,” Camp said. “The most basic Christian commitment ... is that we say we believe in the Lordship of Jesus. […]

So, Mr. Camp—for the sake of peace you’re willing to give up even your core beliefs? For the sake of not offending people, you want to sacrifice that which you’re supposed to believe is the truth?

In the name of tolerance, I guess. But tolerance and political correctness are two different things.

Tolerance is when I, an Orthodox Jew, hand you an assignment with the dates written with CE (Common Era) instead of AD (Year of the Lord) because I don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus, and you accept that.

Political correctness, on the other hand, is when you, a Christian theologian, ask all your Christian students to write CE instead of AD so as not to offend non-Christian students.

Understood now?

But, if we claim that, how can a Muslim or Jew trust us, if we say Jesus is the Lord of all Lords?” ...

Look, I have my reasons for not believing in Jesus as Christians do, but Christians proclaiming their beliefs aloud isn’t one of those reasons. If anything, your stance is one of dishonesty and minding the thoughts of men rather than G-d, and as such make you much less trustworthy in my eyes.

“We have such short historical (memory) spans as white Christians,” he said.

“White”. Now we know where that theologian is coming from: post-colonial, self-loathing, West-hating Leftism.

“There is a history of anti-Semitism, […]

Yes, there is. You might rectify it by standing against those who are today the most potent vehicle of it: the Muslims.

[…] the violence and bloodshed of the crusades […]

Yes, that’s a historical fact too. As is the historical fact of the violence and bloodshed of the Islamic conquests beginning more than four centuries before that.

[…] and cultural imperialism.

Very deplorable, disrupting people from their indigenous customs of burning widows alive, sacrificing babies or amputating thieves.

[…] We have to deal with the reality of what Christians have done, which in some cases has been to kill people.”

Reparations for centuries of wrongdoing, best atoned for by shedding our blood upon the Islamic chopping-block.

But wait, it isn’t over! Here’s what the Islamic spokesman had to say about that:

For Kahled Sakalla, a spokesman for the Islamic Center of Nashville, some of the answers lie in better education about Islam in the non-Muslim world.

Allah, the God Muslims worship, is the same God Christians and Jews worship, and the Quran recounts the same biblical stories of Mary and Jesus, he said. “Yes, we have differences, but it’s important to focus on commonalities,” said Sakalla, one of four panelists representing different faiths who addressed the Lipscomb conference. ...

Sakalla said there may never be reconciliation on the fundamental theological divisions.

“Every religion has different teachings,” he said. “For Muslims, it’s: Do you believe in one God and that Muhammad is his prophet? I don’t think we can teach individuals that the way you go to heaven in other religions is OK. You have to teach differences.”

Greater a contrast between two religionists I have never found. The one saying he’s willing to relinquish his truth for the sake of appeasement, the other saying it’s not an option at all.

Does anyone still wonder why, currently, we’re losing this war?
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posted by ziontruth at permanent link#


Blogger Elmer's Brother said...

if he meant by turning the world to Christendom by sharing the gospel then he would be off base but no Christian I know wants to somehow create Christian caliphate

Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:00:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Elmer's Brother,
I don't know any Christians like that personally. However, there is a movement called Kingdom Now, which seeks to establish God's Kingdom on Earth through political means.

Here's a Wiki article on the movement:


I don't have any idea how many adherents the movement has. Obviously, though, it is not the mainstream of Christianity.

Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:22:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why we need to forget our faith, in our land, in our home ? Why not the muslims try to forget theirs ? We are to many in our countries, they are not so many, so must be more easy to convince them. Is it ? I've heard that in Austria they canceled Saint Nicholas day...you know, the day when kids receive gifts. I wonder, when they will forbid in the same way the Ramadan ? For one restriction to us, one to them. This is the right way to do it.

Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:05:00 pm  
Blogger t-ham said...

Good animal husbandry requires a herd to be culled occasionally to weed out those animals which do not meet certain standards and will, if left in the herd diminish the overall quality, vitality, and vibrancy of the population in question.

I am not equating Western Civilization to herd animals. Rather, as Dag so eloquently writes in his archived material, I say it is quite the opposite. Additionally, I'm not advocating any kind of ethnic cleansing.

What my rather poor analogy is aimed at is that it will take a decimating catastrophe first to weed out the insane amongst us before we rediscover our civilizational pride, become invigorated again, and find the resolve to stand and fight, clearly seeing the enemy and threat for what it is and what they wish to do.

Unfortunately, the culling will not be focused on removing the weak. It will be far more random, a jugernaut taking many good men and women with the bad, and viewed by those doing the culling as a good, no, glorious thing.

I pray there is enough good stock left at the end to both defend and rebuild our cherished culture, and a fierce dedication and resolve to never again let our cultural values be destroyed in the shredder of leftist, secular, MR/PC values.

Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:14:00 am  
Blogger The Gourd said...

I'd just like to point out that Dr. Camp was severely misquoted in this article. I recommend you read his book, "Mere Discipleship" to find out what he really believes. I thought it was ludicrous when I heard that Lee Camp had denied the Lordship of Jesus Christ; of the Christians I know today, he seems to be one who has embraced that concept to its fullest. Here is a link to his response:
Lipscomb Professor responds to Tennessean article

The Gourd

Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:44:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I will run a fresh article at the top of the page which will serve as our correction and apology.

Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:55:00 pm  
Blogger ZionistYoungster said...

I feel very bad now, especially since we of all people should be wary of media unreliability. I apologize personally; and Pasto, if you think the post should be deleted, then I have no problem with that.

I see Charles at LGF already updated the thread. Good.

Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:14:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Nah, I don't think we should delete it. That would be like trying to cover up our mistake. I'll just put an UPDATE at the top with a link to the correction post.

Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:25:00 pm  
Blogger ZionistYoungster said...

Ah, yes, you're right, I didn't think of it that way. I thought it should be deleted so as to eliminate the risk that the man should be defamed. But you're right, that would look more like a cover-up, and your idea of putting the notice at the top is the best. Thanks.

I still feel very bad about having been uncritical. It's the sort of stuff we go hopping mad at when Reuters does it. We all need to be careful. The 48-hour rule is a good one. I haven't made such a mistake on my blog yet, because my blog posts are usually lengthy commentaries written days after the event they elaborate on.

Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:43:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

We all make mistakes. At least when we are shown to make a mistake here at IBA, we correct it at the TOP of the page, and don't buy it as do the NYT, or resort to "fake but accurate, as do AP and CBS.

Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:53:00 pm  

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