Pamela and Diana West, apparently, believe that they can resurrect this argument a year later, and win by default because none of us want to get back in it.
Diana West says (and once again, Pamela posted it) that:
Dewinter, Borghezio and Strache are not "racist-fascist" leaders. They are, in their very different styles, leaders--very popular (but not in the press!) elected leaders--who are bravely combating the smugly dictatorial, entrenched, leftist establishments of Europe which, as Bat Ye'or has explained in Eurabia and elsewhere, have made common cause with the Islamic world, exchanging their Western heritage for power and oil.
Dewinter, Borghezio and Strache are all Euro-skeptics, meaning they oppose the sovereignty-gobbling European Union. Dewinter and Borghezio are doubly revolutionary in that they also represent the secessionist movements of Flanders and Nothern Italy that want independence from Belgium and Italy respectively. (Here is an astute appraisal of Lega Nord, Vlaams Belang and the trend of "localism" in Europe by my good friend Paul Belien.) "Racist"? "Fascist"?
I don't like Le Pen, who is also appearing at the September 20 event. I can't even tell you what he stands for. (Last I heard, he was effectively pro-Islamization so long as Muslims speak French, so I can't imagine what his contribution to an anti-Islamization rally might be.) Last summer in Brussels, I also interviewed Carl Lang, a member of European Parliament for Le Pen's Front National, and concluded that this political party is in total disarray, and that the 80-year-old Le Pen himself will probably have to retire before any coherent anti-Islamization movement has a chance of evolving out of the political group Le Pen will eventually leave behind. (Coincidentally, Le Pen announced this week he will effectively retire in 2010.)
Last summer, when I asked Filip Dewinter about the upcoming event in Cologne/Koln, Le Pen wasn't even on the list of invitees. I don't pretend to follow the internal machinations of the group Cities Against Islamisation, so I can't explain how or why Le Pen came to be added to the list ...
Yes, Diana. Don't look too hard, or else you will actually come to understand more of the "internal machinations" than you would care to.
Pamela and Diana are both playing, "My right hand doesn't know what my left hand is doing."
As long as they can construct sentences which say things like, "I don't pretend to follow the internal machinations of the group Cities Against Islamisation, so I can't explain how or why Le Pen came to be added to the list ...", they can go on denying their knowledge of the Ethnic Nationalist philosophy of this movement.
Why is LePen invited?
Because he is Filip DeWinter's friend, as is evidenced by the fact that DeWinter keeps a photograph of himself and LePen on his bookshelf in his living room, where he spends time with his children. (you'll also note, right at the outset of this video, that DeWinter keeps a White Power cross on his bookshelf.)
DeWinter and LePen are tied together, and they are Ethnic Nationalists, which means that they promote the cause of keeping Europe balkanized by Ethnicity. Ultimately, this kind of political philosophy can only be enforced by laws which either limit the number of babies immigrants can have, or eliminate the immigrants through explusion, or worse.
And, by the way, there is plenty of information on the internet which will show you the links between DeWinter's party and various Nazis, and the British National Party, and David Duke.
Last fall, when this whole thing blew up (the October 2007 which Pamela references), one of the primary proponents of this movement, an odd lady named Christine Brim (who at the time headed the Center for Vigilant Freedom, the organization which organized the Belgium rally), openly called for alliances between the counter-Jihad movement and the British National Party.
The leader of the BNP is Nick Griffin, who is a Holocaust denier. Rare in the Ethnic Nationalist movement, Griffin does have the gift of subtlety, but other leaders of his party have repeatedly and often called for a "white Britain."
22 comments:
LONG DEAD.
Phillip Dewinter decided it himself BY METAPHOR....WHITE EUROPE IS NO FREAKING METAPHOR.
Pam should have let it DIE.
Now I have to go comment and piss them both off.
Too bad Ms West doesn't allow comments.
Man is she wrong.
Let's buddy up with racists to fight other racists and jihadis.
This is hard enuf
I have a photo of Snow White hugging my children on my mantle EPA . . .does that mean I should be aware of the internal machinations of Disney enterprise?
Not everything that goes on behind the scenes is visible to everyone. The visible program is what people are attracted to. Things aren't so rosey in the Disney background either. If patrons were each aware of every dirty detail behind the scenes, interest could wane despite no change in program.
I despise Le Pen and have no use for him. So what? The 'cross' that vexes so many has a very long history with several historic interpretations. I would care more about such a bookend if it held up Mein Kampf or the koran - not there in the photo evidence.
Diana and Atlas are big girls that can look out for themselves. The Baron and Dymphna are capable rational adults as well. They are firmly planted on the side of counter jihadists.
IMHO, It's a mistake to take such animus against Le Pen and company and extend it to those we need on our side. Time is a luxury we don't have. Bat Ye'or couldn't have made that any more clear.
Keep your allies close and your enemies close enough to finish the job.
Respectfully,
-heroyalwhyness
Listen.... IMHO -No jew on the planet should be in league with racists in any fight, for any reason.
After suffering from 2500 years of outright persecution it betrays every single life
P
E
R
I
O
D
Le Pen is a racist
BNP, Vlamms, just like THESE PEOPLE
There is absolutely no difference.
Maybe you can rationalize David Duke in your foxhole, but I've already faced these people. They are the enemy every bit as much as Qaradawi et al. Every single bit.
VB=David Duke
White Europe = White America = racial purity = you and I are gone or a bar of soap.
That is all there is to it
Who cares who goes before us?
HerRoyalWhyness,
This is my opinion.
I got into doing what I do because I stand against the idea of one people treating another people badly because they are not part of the right tribe.
Muslims hate Jews and Infidels, because their dumb religion tells them to hate Jews and Infidels.
Ethnic nationalists do not want people who are not of their ethnicity to be in their country.
I abhor Ethnic Nationalism in all its forms. I abhor Japanese Nationalism, black nationalism, Native American Nationalism (I think Indian reservations are compltely fucking ridiculous), Chinese Nationalism, Korean Nationalism, Arab Nationalism, etc.
I hate those ideas.
We human beings are created in God's Image. if you believe that then you believe Ethnicity doesn't matter. We are all one in the Blood.
This is the ideal that America is founded on.
As human beings created in God's Image, we have a choice, will we live according to instincts like animals, or will we live according to God's commandments, and be the fulfillment of what God planned for us?
Animals are tribalistic. Should we continue on being tribalistic because it is our instinct?
My answer is "No."
Pamela is much too smart to fall for this. As I said, she doesn't want her right hand to know what her left hand is doing.
I'm not going to shut my mouth on this out of some desire for Unity.
Pamela and Diana West brought the subject up again. It's their fault.
Note, I have been friendly with Pamela. I know she and I are ultimately on the same side. However, this issue goes too deep to the core of who I am.
My family is mostly non-white. Am I supposed to go with Ethnic Nationalis (and betray my family) out of an interest in keeping peace with a bunch of whities in the counter-Jihad movement?
I'm not going to do it.
By the way, here's a question to ponder:
Why is it that Epa, Always on Watch and I are the ones who are supposed to shut up and get along?
My opinion is Pamela ought to be the one who shuts up.
She is the one who started this (along with Christine Brim and Baron Bodissey). And, she is the one who is continuing it.
And, it is clearly counter to Western values.
So, why would I cease speaking up?
There is no good reason?
I'm not going to shut up so that others can push values which are counter to America and Western Civilization.
By the way, you'll notice Pamela is not capable of making these arguments herself, and so she uses other people's words.
I write my own words on this subject, and if you want to see the history, let me know and I'll give you a rundown on the posts re Ethnic Nationalism.
The people who push this stuff have no global Philosophical view of the world. They are people who are looking for the expedient.
As Pastorius has mentioned, I've made my position clear on this matter of alliances with ethnic supremacists.
There has been a similar discussion going on over at Jihad Watch, and I weighed in a couple of times.
To finish what I was saying (I hit the publish button too soon)....
Epa said, Let's buddy up with racists to fight other racists and jihadis.
And that's exactly what's happening. It's much more than a PR problem.
The Front parties are playing a game to gain power. And if they get that political power, then what?
Pastorius mentioned unity. Yes, unity is important. But at what price? Becoming tribal???
robohobo...in that case wouldn't it have been wise for both Ms West and Pam to have LEFT WELL ENOUGH ALONE?
I cannot by silence allow anyone to assume that it is possible to go along in order to have people like the reprehensible CofCC (VB, BNP, Le Pen) fight alongside those who oppose a DIFFERENT BRAND of that kind of racism (one lobe of jihadism).
I cannot.
I have seen the whipping the desire for a secure border has taken FROM PRECISELY these kinds of people. People who see a secure border as way to keep all those 'greasers' out, and keep them from 'changing' the 'cultural' heritage of the USA. They are racists.
White Europe.
RACISTS
They fight the same "IMAGINED" foe but they fight that culturally different foe for those reasons.
So please, respectfully TAKE YOUR COMPLAINT to Pam and Diana West to leave this alone (I already did).
You can bet on this... every time this comes up, there are people who will be COMPELLED to answer that racists have no place among us.
Only 14% of america in this campaign consider islamic terrorism THE major issue. Add racists as an ally.
Now how low would you like to see the number go because people whose ideas are unified in the american mind with Ross Barnett and George Wallace are at the heart of warning about the real purpose of terrorism?
Robohobo,
What's your point? In what way have I smeared anyone? I analyzed their positions and stated where I believe their positions will lead.
That's called critical analysis. If you want to criticize us, you might also want to use some reason.
If you don't use reason when establishing an counter-argument aginst the argument of another person, then
YOU ARE MERELY SMEARING THEM.
HRW Clarification:
First: I make no alliance with anyone who doesn't agree that all races are to be treated equally under the umbrella of universal human rights. No deviations. Period.
Second: The effort to de-Islamize Europe(Islamization is the very deviation I'm concerned with above) is and should remain a legal issue - one rule of law for all.
Not a racial issue.
Any effort to accomodate Islam is deviating from the equality standard as sharia's ultimate goal is to undermine equality. Sharia breaches the rule of law. That is the way it needs to be addressed.
The standard I apply to Islam, I apply equally to LePen, BNP, and any/all attendees at the anti-islamization conference.
Is that any clearer?
Respectfully -Heroyalwhyness
Well put, HRW.
But there is another element to the principle of one rule of law for all -- the nature of the law under which people will be ruled. The end product of the Islamization of Europe will be the rule of law all right -- Sharia law, with all the horrors, injustice, and brutality it encompasses. What will be the chances of subjugated future generations subverting that?
It seems what is happening in Europe is the predictable result of the abandonment of that standard of one rule of law for all by those unwilling to defend a system of law that codified Western values such as freedom of speech in the face of the relentless assault of barbarism. The jihadists intend to institute a code of law in which "equal rights" belong exclusively to fundamentalist Muslim males. Everyone else will possess only the "right" to submit to these masters. That is what makes those photos Diana West took of "The Garages" ominous. Not "look! there are nothing but Middle Eastern men on these streets!" but why are there nothing but men there? What is preventing the women from freely moving about outside? Not that these men are Middle Eastern, but what are they planning amongst themselves in these no-go "sensitive" neighborhoods? What makes it possible for them to prevent the authorities from enforcing the law of the land in those neighborhoods?
Is "ethnic nationalism" the best Europe can come up with to defend itself from this? To fight the breach of Western law by Sharia law, they must first grasp the value of Western law. What the hell does the secession of half of Belgium have to do with that? How is Flemish nationalism supposed to halt the spread of Sharia courts in Great Britain?
It is a mistake to try to ignore the ethnic nationalism front groups. Watch what they propose, what they do, whom they attract, how they are opposed and by whom, and learn. Let what happens in Europe be a lesson. We do not have to fall into the same traps being laid by either side.
RRA,
Very well put.
Thanks for saying what Epa and I would like to say but, apparently, don't have the words for.
HRW,
Yes, I understand.
Thanks.
Let me show you how I see it.
- Europe has immigrants.
- The immigrants are not only outbreeding Europeans, but the Europeans are actually breeding at less than replacement rate.
- That means, Europeans will, inevitably, be taken over demographically by those they have allowed to enter their countries.
- Therefore, the only Ethnic Nationalist solution will be
1) to somehow inspire europeans to outbreed the immigrants
2) make laws limiting the amount of children immigrants can have
or
3) take a path, legal or otherwise, which will lead to a decrease in the population of non-European peoples in Europe.
There are no other options on the horizon.
When I say that Pamela and Diane West don't want their right hands to know what their left hands are doing, this is what I am referring to.
They, in supporting Ethnic Nationalists, are asking for a system which will ultimately and inevitably become fascistic.
Does that make sense?
Do they support such goals?
That's a stretch. Where did you read that LePen, the BNP etc. are hosting or running this event?
IIRC, they are attending this shindig in the same manner as the counter-jihad bloggers - as guests.
Counter-jihad bloggers are supporting anti-islamization of Europe and the West - plain and simple. I have yet see any indication that these bloggers would support one bit of any antisemetic or racist politics of the men mentioned.
I am not ignoring the issues you bring up. Keep an eye on it, sure.
Remain focused on the primary issue - the de-islamization of the west. Not an easy task, but a necessary one.
Hi Anonymous,
Here's a quote from the Diana West article:
The speakers at next Saturday's demonstration, according to the Cities Against Islamisation website, will be:
Henry Nitzsche, member of the German Parliament (Deutsche Bundestag)
Filip Dewinter, group leader of Vlaams Belang in the Flemish Parliament
Markus Beisicht, president of the German Movement “Pro NRW”
Jean-Marie Le Pen, president of Front National (France)
Mario Borghezio, member of European Parliament for the Italian Lega Nord
Heinz-Christian Strache, president of FPÖ (Austria)
Here's the link to the post at Atlas Shrugs:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/09/the-old-right-f.html
Diana West clearly supports the fact that these men are the featured speakers. And, Pamela does as well.
Obviously Pamela does a lot of good work for the counter-Jihad, but she is in way over her head on this one, to be frank. As I mentioned, on this issue, I write my own stuff. Pamela does not. She relies on the arguments formed by other people. That is because Pamela has no dscernible encompassing philosophical world view.
Pamela should not be making arguments on this subject, because she doesn't understand the implications of the arguments she is making.
Lord knows what Diana is up to. She might be as odd a woman as the infamous Christine Brim.
Once again, I will point you back to the demographic problem in Europe and to the fact that the only Ethnic Nationalist solutions to the problem are fascistic laws.
Here's another good question to ponder: What would Lincoln do in this situation?
Would he be on the side of the Ethnic Nationalists, or would he be talking (as he did in the leadup to the Civil War) of how all men are created equal, and thus are entitled to equal protection and dignity in the face of the law?
Time to consider some of formerly more unsavory connections of the Wash Times.
Francis B. Coombs Jr. That is just the 1st item in a disturbing list.
People like Tony Blankely don't take a hike for no reason
I don't want to paint Diana West with this brush, but SHE may have been hired to forward certain ideas which she has foolishly now found consonance with.
If we can worry over Obama's thought processes in his appointments like McPeak, Zbig, Powers, Malley etc, ...and his association over many years with Wright, then there is certainly no reason NOT to wonder in this vein.
HRW, great. I got scared
Epa,
I think you should post on the Washington Times, Blankley and Diana West. If Coombs is "white supremacist" in his leanings and Blankley and others have left for that reason, then why is Diana West sticking around?
That is a relevant question, espcially in light of the fact that she is now openly advocating for the Vlaams Belang.
I would also like to know why Christine Brim is working for Frank Gaffney at the Center for Security Policy.
Something is wrong here.
We may just have to come to the conclusion that some of our friends really are "white suprecacist sympathizers."
I cannot conclude that of Atlas.
I have no idea who Diana West is at heart.
But if the SPLC, while to the left, which is unsparing when it comes to racism etc, and has little time for making things up for outright political reasons is correct, then I wish to hell Pam would simply STOP POSTING THIS CRAP, and simply let it fade as she recognizes the objective reality.
Which is...White Europe is no metaphor, and what VB wants is precisely what the CofCC wants, neither of which is advantageous to a person like Pam.
I am working on a post right now, and look for it late today
Epa,
You said you wish Pamela would let it fade.
Problem is, instead of letting it fade she posted an article and her own comments, both of which castigated our position.
Instead of letting it fade she has gone back to the mattresses.
I am very disappointed in her.
And frankly, she doesn't have intellligence in this area of life. She is making a fool of herself.
History will not remember her well. She could actually have a historical legacy, because she does have a real impact.
But, she's making herself out to be like Jung or Heidegger (not that she's in their league).
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