I don't think this will pass. First of all, in Islam, Rasulullah (peace and blessings be upon Him) is very highly regarded. Not like Jesus or Moses are regarded in their respective religions, Muhammad is the red line you non-Muslims cannot cross.The title of the posting to which that comment was made -- Wilders: "I propose the withdrawal of all hate speech legislation in Europe. I propose a European First Amendment."
How can you regulate the situation, say the Danish cartoon situation, if a billion people are boiling mad? Do you go on TV and say, hey, remember the First Amendment? or would you go around the Arab street telling people, "of course hate speech needs to be protected, otherwise why protect speech at all?" This logic works in a liberal, academic setting, but if people's basest emotion (of raw love to the Prophet) are hurt, then get ready for backlash. Causing anger might be "protected" in your fancy Western notion of freedom, but Islam goes straight to human nature and understands it. That is why hate speech is NOT protected in Islam -- it goes against the nature of human. Those who do nothing while their beliefs are trampled (or having their icons dipped in urine, for example) have a thin instinct of survival. They won't last another century.
That's why Islam will prevail. It cuts through all bullshit about freedom and goes straight to human nature. That's why Islam conquered the world barely 200 years after Muhammad's departure. People know that Islam is the real thing, not some theoretic framework made up by philosophers.
I hope this convinces you all that any efforts like those mentioned by Goat Wilders above are doomed to fail. You cannot suppress human nature. Islam is the solution. Aslam Taslim!
A lot of what the commenter said is so much crap that we're used to hearing.
But does he have a point? That the West doesn't stand up for itself?
15 comments:
Yes - the West is not standing up for itself. It's not defending its culture.
And just to set yemenman straight, he is right - You cannot suppress human nature - and human nature is the yearning to be free !! and not under the boot of a primitive tyrannical ideology.
That's proven in history.
What most bothers me about the comment: he is so convinced of what he believes in.
The West, overall, doesn't seem to be convinced of its own values. I believe that this wimpiness is at the heart of our problems with Islam.
AOW
Yemenman's understanding of "human nature" appears to focus on the tendency of two-year-olds to throw temper tantrums when their wishes are not met. Islam is not a conviction, it is a state of arrested development, by his own definition.
The West cannot legitimately "stand up for itself" unless it stands up for the right of each person to peacefully hold and express his convictions regardless of whether those convictions offend someone else. Therefore it is right for Christians and others offended by the "Piss Christ" to denounce the "artist", to speak out against him, to boycott him, to argue with friends who admire his work, and to re-assert their own beliefs. But it would not be right for them to burn down the gallery, arrest or behead him.
This is why I commented a couple days ago that, if things go on as they are, a violent clash with the Islamists is unavoidable. There is no adult supervision here. No one is telling the tantrumming Muslim toddlers to put down the nukes and take a 10-minute Time Out, let alone grounding them for a week.
Yemenman is asserting that it is right and proper for Muslims to react with violence to any perceived slight against a man who was a murderer, a thief, an advocate of slavery, a pedophile, a rapist, and, quite possibly, insane into the bargain.
I'm not a Christian, but I can understand the impulse to punch someone in the nose for insulting Jesus as I would understand that impulse in defense of any good man being slandered.
Mohammad was, demonstrably, not a good man. He was a delusional, power-mad thug. Which means that for his followers to hold him up as the "ideal man" they must focus on his claim of perfection, take his few benevolent comments out of context, and ignore or rationalize the rest. This results in cognitive dissonance, which is an explosive fuel to rage. In a Muslim of yemenman's mindset it touches off the impulse to "defend" a violent warlord by the same means said warlord dealt with those who displeased him.
And there we are. This impulse is being tolerated on a global scale and sooner or later the out of control little brats are going to set fire to the house and we are going to have to beat the crap out of them or die, because at that point nothing else will work.
Oh, and yemenman? If you're monitoring this? Bring it on, you little thug. I may be a "senior ciitizen" but I don't have to wear diapers on my mind, which puts me way ahead of you.
Increasingly I find my self just thinking...
LET'S
DANCE
Now, Later .. who cares.
Free Speech - use it or lose it!
We must not miss any opportunity to mock Mohammed, the Koran and the death cult.
As I remarked previously , these things are tribal totems and cannot be argued against rationally, but must be humiliated and mocked,
Make Islam and especially its beloved prophet a laughing stock.
Publish something that offends Muslims every day.
RRA,
Islam is not a conviction, it is a state of arrested development, by his own definition.
Arrested development can lead to complete conviction of beliefs held, to the point of perseverating.
Najistani,
You're right. Logic doesn't reach somebody like Yemenman, who is ever offended by "the other."
Epam
I've been fretting for months about being too "hawkish", but it's now impossible to dodge the fact that the longer this is delayed the worse it will be. I mean that literally. All it will take is for Iran to either attack or respond to an Israili attack by taking out the Saudi oil supply and the economic balloon goes up as well.
My main concern is Iran because of all the reasons touched on by MR in the preivous post -- and because they are the most overtly irrational players in a cast of wild-eyed lunatics. Their motives are so extreme and bizarre that they defy proper analysis even by some who recognize the danger in other Islamists. And while Pakistan is still in the race at this point my money is on Iran to light the fuse.
If we take yemenman and other Islamists at the own words, then Jihad can compared to a force of nature impervious to reason. But it is neither a tsunami nor a volcano in which the only course of action is to get out of the way until it subsides, nor is it a blizzard or hurrican which can be predicted, prepared for, and endured. It is rather a conflagration, a firestorm that must be fought, stopped from advancing, and extinguished -- or it will continue to spread until it engulfs the world.
One thing that I believe is important to note is that Islam claims to be a strictly monotheistic religion, with an absolute prohibition against idolatry.
However, they clearly worship Mohammed and the Koran, and many other totems of their faith.
If we really believed them to be absolute monotheists, then we could expect that they would only object to the mockery of Allah.
However, as is true with the Jewish and Christian faiths, we don't even much care about mockery of our God, because we believe our God to be bigger than the words of any human.
Islam is a very insecure and mendacious faith.
We need to clarify the statement regarding the West. The Western people (granted not all) IS standing up for itself, the Western Governments on the other hand, are not, and this is the problem.
This basically means that we are on our own with no backup and to my mind is the seeds for a Civil War/Revolution if I ever saw one (I'm speaking from a British standpoint here, presume it's similar over the water?).
EPA - great minds think alike. If they want to bring it, let them. They are the religious equivalent to the credit bubble in that they've had it good for so long they think it'll always be that way. They are so stupid they really think that if it came to hard action they would win. Ermmmm no is my answer.
Najistani - you're analysis was spot on and I try to get my 5 fruit and veg along with 1 insulted Muslim a day to keep me healthy :-)
That's the troll who called freedom of speech a "racket." LOL.
Why are we letting these monsters in our countries again?
pastorius you hit it! so often ive thought the same thing what the fuck do they care if mo the child molestor is insulted when they dont care if thier moon god is insulted?
they worship mo thats why.
I suspect attempting free-speech suppression through intimidation and violence will ultimately prove to be the double wide red line crossing folly of all the ages.
Sad, but can you believe the grocery store was all out of my favorite Doritos today - the extra cheesy kind? Deeply disturbing.
Now, I bet if they were out of beer there'd be insurrection.
Putting aside Yemenman's mockery of the free speech and human nature arguments, the one aspect of his discourse that rings true is his supposition that because the Muslims do indeed intently believe, are taught to believe, are beaten into submission to believe that defending the honor of their "prophet" is their number one priority in life, this strength of focus will outweigh and ultimately defeat the soft "turn the other cheek" impulses of the Western Christian and free speech peoples. Given the dhimmi behaviors of our Western governments, one may easily grant Yemenman this point, not as ultimately true in fact, but at least, as an example of rational thought. End of compassion for the Islamic barbarian. Enter the Third Wave of Crusaders with superior technology and awakened masses. Now do the math. Much death and destruction, enough to go around to touch the core of every life on the planet.
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