Answers to Objections When You Talk About Islam
An excellent post from Citizen Warrior:
BELOW IS a list of responses you are likely to get when talking about the terrifying brilliance of Islam to someone who knows little about it. Most of the responses link to an article giving you suggestions about how to effectively respond. In the next few months, we will add answers to the unlinked ones.If you ever come across a response not on our list, and you have difficulty answering it, please let us know; we'll work on it and add it to the list.
The good news is that the responses you will typically get are a fairly small number. You'll hear the same few objections over and over. When you have some good answers to these objections ready at hand, you will be able to answer smoothly and with poise, without feeling tense or antagonistic.
We're hoping you will add more possible responses or advice in the comments on the articles linked below. And if you have any possible answers to the unlinked responses below, we'd love to hear them (email us).
When you talk about Islamic supremacism with people, they are likely to say one of the following:
1. But it is just a small minority of extremists.
2. My friend is a Muslim and he's really nice.
3. What you're saying is racist.
4. Aren't you being religiously intolerant? People in this country have a right to worship as they please. Isn't religious tolerance one of our most important principles?
5. Christianity is just as bad.
6. Not all Muslims are terrorists.
7. We can't go to war with 1.3 billion Muslims!
8. Are you an Islamophobe?
9. Isn't this bigotry?
10. Are you a hatemonger? I don't believe in promoting hatred.
11. You should really talk to some Muslims. You're getting all this from books.
12. There are peaceful passages in the Qur'an too.
13. People take what they want from any writings. You can pretty much justify anything if you quote it out of context.
14. There are millions of Muslims in this country and they're not blowing things up.
15. My family and my community is Muslim, and none of us are terrorists.
16. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism.
17. Haven't mosques and churches and synogogs sat side-by-side in the Middle East for a thousand years?
18. You're taking the verses of the Quran out of context.
19. But jihad is an internal struggle.
20. Criticizing Islam will push the moderates into the arms of the extremists.
21. What about the good verses in the Quran?
22. What can we do about it?
I also have an all-purpose response to any objection you get. Simply ask: "How did you learn about Islam?" Your question will probably reveal to both of you how little the other knows about Islam, and that is a good place to start.
41 comments:
I spot checked a few of these ... they are excellent.
I once started a pages of answers but never got around to finishing or publishing them. Citizen Warrior does a much better job.
Pastorius,
Citizen Warrior does a good job as usual. Unfortunately some of the text that should be links is just ordinary black text.
Abdooss,
No one here that I know of, whoever created a thread here, including Citizen Warrior thinks that All Muslims are our enemies or are bad people. If you are a Muslim and you really want to convince non Muslims that you mean them no harm, distance yourself from the Jihadists and denounce Sharia, and condemn anyone who believes anything along the lines of you having to be a Muslim to be innocent.
Damien,
Really? No one one here thinks All Muslim are your enemies? Who is practising Taquiyya now? At least Dag was being frank, not to mention RiverRidesAgain, and a few others. I'm just waiting for the day for Dag to nuke Afghanistan and Iran.
As usual, the white people mentality: All you non-white people are lesser than we white people. So you must do what we order you!
As I have told Pastorius, I will just get back to the Chess World; we are free to support anyone or will do whatever we pleased. Including supporting Garry Kasparov, a Jew, or Grandmaster Boris Gelfand, an Israeli, or anyone else. Our prowess is proved over the chessboard, and nobody get killed, innocent or otherwise.
This Muslim/Infidel/Islam/Christian conflict is getting out of hand and too many lives have been lost. Most of us just won't have anything to do with it. Nether will we try to convince anyone.
Abdooss,
Fine don't bother. But if you actual look and listen carefully, you will realize that just about every major player in the Anti Jihad movement, does not think that all Muslims are out to get us. Neither do I. This is not a "White People Mentality." Now if you don't mind experiencing a back lash, go right ahead, and do nothing. Otherwise prove people who think that you're out to get them because your a Muslim Wrong. Large Numbers of Muslims right now think that they have a duty from Allah to forcibly make all non Muslims submit. If you are not one, of them, you should act like you don't support them, and denounce anyone who does.
As usual playing the opressed minority pick your choise.Instead of taking up responsabilty even the Christian Church openly admids it behaved wrongly in the past : Crusades,witchhunts,inquisition etc .. Do you hear any Moderate Muslim Imans saying that killing infidels was a mistake?There's a branch of Islam that condems the violance in the Koran, but they are persecuted by the rest of Islam.I rest my case!
Damien,
This is a War which all sides won't win. As we cannot come to a consensus;
We believe it is the World against Terrorism (and AlQaeda). While you persist on the Notion that it is a War of Infidels against Islam & Muslim.
You want me to Prove to you that
6. Not all Muslims are terrorists? and
14. There are millions of Muslims in this country and they're not blowing things up??
What's to prove if whatever we do or say is deemed as Taquiyya? It's a debate we can't win.
I myself prefer to watch your war from a far.. as instead of finishing off the AlQaeda, most of you prefer to alienate Muslims on your own soil instead of winning them over. Maybe Osama ben Laden is laughing his head off, waiting for civil wars to erupt on the Western fronts. Just wait and see.
Jason Pappas,
I am not condemning you Infidels. Instead I am urging you guys to not just talk, but also to carry out whatever you said (if you really dare). Please re-read my post above and previous ones too.
Mohammad teaching me to hate Jews? Okay, maybe I missed a few lessons at the madrasah. Please have me educated.
Nazi followers not worthy being called Nazi? My World War II recollection is not so good but who tried to assassinate Hitler? The Dirty Dozen?
Abdooss,
I am not saying that you need to prove that not all Muslims are Terrorists and that not all Muslims are trying to blow things up. I was just giving you advise on how to convince intelligent educated people that you are not in the group that is.
Abdooss.
The fact that you even don't recognise the truth in my words makes it obvious Islam is not willing to change it violant ways.Look all over the world where ever there's Islam there are senseless killings over religious arguments provoked by it.Nothing you can say can bring back the daily victims by Islamic violance.If anything i get from your words it's that you would like Christians to start a war on Islam so you can cry wolf again,we know that trick we've seen it every day with Palestine and Israel.We're not that stupid as you might think.
Damien,
((Why is it when I engage you (and Pastorius), you seemed to tonedown and less confrontational? ))
I need to convince you intelligent educated people?
Most of you have already formed the opinion that we are the opposite of you guys.
These exchanges are already proving who is more intelligent and educated - of course, that is you!
You don't need convincing. You can negate any of our attempt. If all fail, you can say we are Taquiyya-ing.
If any of us tried, and other Muslims condemn us, as Will stated above, it will only strengthen your belief that Islam and Muslim is evil.
So, I am taking the unintelligent and uneducated way of thinking ; we are indeed EVIL. I urge you, if you cannot go and kill at Afgahistan, start at your own neighbourhood. Burn all Quran / Koran you can find. Draw Mohamed again and again. Dag will approve of the killings (and anything else)!
Abdooss,
No I won't say that you are committing Taquiyya, unless you give me reason to think you are.
I don't think, Dr. Zudhi Jasser is evil, or is committing Taquiyya.
Damien,
Maybe not you, but most of you.
You believe what you want. You also don't need any convincing from anybody.
Abdooss.
I believe in feeding the Trolls so feed on this.
The Ahmadi Muslim sect, founded in 1889 in India, now numbers tens of millions of believers, mostly living outside the Arab world. “We believe in a tolerant, friendly and rational Islam,” says Muhammad Sharif, head of the Ahmadis in Israel. Former Haifa Mayor Amram Mitzna notes that among this community there is “no incitement, violence, or feeling the need to conquer the whole world.”
Yet members of the sect who live in the Palestinian Authority have been suffering from incessant persecution, confiscation of property, and physical violence during the past year.
And for more info :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_Muslim_Community
Perhaps you can put these also on your next to eliminate list before there's only one religion?
Abdooss,
Do you read any of the stuff going on in the name of your religion or do you only focus on the fact that we westerners realize pisslam is a supremacist, political ideology incompatible with free society, which has cultural practices and traditions that we consider criminal and violations of basic human rights?
Did you know that over a thousand moooslums died in terrorist attacks all over your shithole countries for ramalamadingdong month? Or are you so numb to the violence of pisslam that you just ignore it? Those weren't Western "white" men killing those folks, those were "your" fellow believers.
What do you think of the 40 million women in Egypt alone sitting there with their genitals cut off? And it's not just Egypshit! We can probably extrapolate, that given the number of moooslum countries that do this, there are probably, at least, some 100 million moooslum women with no genitals in this world thanks to alshitlah! Wow. The sexism in your religion just makes me physically ill.
How can you, as a moooslum, go play your chess game when your nutcase religion is out of control? Face it, Abdooss, you supposedly live in a "moderate" mooslum country, but here's what has gone on in your "moderate" country just this year:
http://news.malaysia.msn.com/regional/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4332499
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6980360.ece
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2010/0218/Malaysia-begins-caning-women-for-adultery
We think pisslam is sick. We think anyone who would honor and try and emulate a man who raped women, murdered countless, fucked little girls and urged the spreading of such an ideology through violence has got to be crazy. Moehammy was no Jesus or Siddhartha Guatama! How can you defend such a "prophet?" Prophet my ass! We call his behavior psychopathic. We would put someone of his proclivities in an insane asylum.
I spit on pisslam and that's my right. I have rights!!! I don't have to respect your religion!!! You should read the travel advisories for your country for Westerners! Pretty scary stuff for a "moderate" pisslamic country. Really, possession of drugs can result in the death penalty? Wow. You are some intolerant mofos!
Abdooss,
Do you read any of the stuff going on in the name of your religion or do you only focus on the fact that we westerners realize pisslam is a supremacist, political ideology incompatible with free society, which has cultural practices and traditions that we consider criminal and violations of basic human rights?
Did you know that over a thousand moooslums died in terrorist attacks all over your shithole countries for ramalamadingdong month? Or are you so numb to the violence of pisslam that you just ignore it? Those weren't Western "white" men killing those folks, those were "your" fellow believers.
What do you think of the 40 million women in Egypt alone sitting there with their genitals cut off? And it's not just Egypshit! We can probably extrapolate, that given the number of moooslum countries that do this, there are probably, at least, some 100 million moooslum women with no genitals in this world thanks to alshitlah! Wow. The sexism in your religion just makes me physically ill.
How can you, as a moooslum, go play your chess game when your nutcase religion is out of control? Face it, Abdooss, you supposedly live in a "moderate" mooslum country, but here's what has gone on in your "moderate" country just this year:
http://news.malaysia.msn.com/regional/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4332499
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6980360.ece
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2010/0218/Malaysia-begins-caning-women-for-adultery
We think pisslam is sick. We think anyone who would honor and try and emulate a man who raped women, murdered countless, fucked little girls and urged the spreading of such an ideology through violence has got to be crazy. Moehammy was no Jesus or Siddhartha Guatama! How can you defend such a "prophet?" Prophet my ass! We call his behavior psychopathic. We would put someone of his proclivities in an insane asylum.
I spit on pisslam and that's my right. I have rights!!! I don't have to respect your religion!!! You should read the travel advisories for your country for Westerners! Pretty scary stuff for a "moderate" pisslamic country. Really, possession of drugs can result in the death penalty? Wow. You are some intolerant mofos!
Hey dudes,
Don't know why it double posted? Please delete one. Once was enough:)
Abdoos, I just asked you a simple question. If you are not going to follow the example of Mohammad, why call yourself a Muslim. You obviously won't answer it.
Instead you ask: "Mohammad teaching me to hate Jews? Okay, maybe I missed a few lessons at the madrasah. Please have me educated."
Five times a day a Muslim must recite the Salaat where it says:
"... not the path of those who have brought down wrath, nor of those who wander astray ..." The first is a reference to Jews; the second to Christians. Thus, a Muslim reiterates Mohammad's anger towards the Jews 5 times a day.
Wafa Sultan points out that for Arab speakers, this renews their anger and hatred for the Jews everytime they say their daily prayer. See my review of her book.
Obviously Abdoos isn't seriously interested in dialog.
my personal favorite is...
during WW2 not all Germans were Nazi's..
i reply: well, it's more like they would say...
...I'm i Nazi, but "i" haven't killed anyone..
Still, Black_Rain, I would like to know why Abdooss calls himself a Muslim. He doesn't seem to know much about Islam. Of course, he's just interested in taunting and baiting. I only post so that other readers can learn. Thanks, for your comments, BR.
Welcome to (il) logical troll discourse gymnastics, it may hurt your head, but only until you're practically dead.
You nasty infidul pricks, you just want to kill all the peddyfyle warshipperz dontcha? Well go ahead, you racist punkz, make my bed. Hahaha, see! I guess now you'll just have to sleep in it too, you morons!
I suppose you think I follow a bad guy idiotology, and want kill all juice? Oye vey, you dumb uneducated hatters! See there - I just proved it's not true by saying it like an idiot juice would! Now peace and love to you before the whole world goes to hell in a hand basket. By the way, how did you ever get to be such a bunch of cowardly-far-from-a-kenetic-war-front, invisible white innernut typists, anyway?
Nazis being called Nazis? Ho, well, *snort*, can't have that now can we? But of course, I wasn't personally there during WW2, and so you're the self-righteous super-educated supremecists, not me. Therefore, you'll probably want to be careful about the lyme disease when you're walking in the woods....
American Rose's comment backed the troll- abdooss - off--!!!
Good going AR!!
C-CS
Sorry guys, I had a very exciting yet very long chess game.
Damien,
Do you see it; if I disagreed with your post, your other bloggers will attack me. The same happened when I agree. The others think I was being "taunting & baiting" . What triggers? When I said I'm Muslim.
American Rose,
No one is asking you to do anything you don't want. In fact, I'm urging you guys to take it to the next level. Don't just talk. Do it. You talked incessantly of blowing off Muslims heads. If you can't go to Afganistan, do it at your own neighbourhood. Burn the Koran. No, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm curious to know what will happen after that.
Jason Papas,
Months ago, I had engaged your fellow bloggers in dialog. No one will listen to me. At least, now Damien is willing to listen. However, I'm not here to defend Islam. Quite the contrary. Now I am curious to see whether you will do what you say. Oust them. Wipe them (and me) from the face of the earth. Or you prefer others to do the dirty job?
Islam has killed tens of thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands (I'm thinking of Sudan) in the past few years, and Abdoos is angry with "white people" because "one idiot" killed a Sikh man in Arizona the day after 9/11, after mistaking him for a Muslim.
Think about that. 100,000 to one, and the one wasn't even a Muslim.
And, the Muslim cab driver? Oh, he was stabbed by a guy WHO WAS IN FAVOR OF THE MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO.
But, Abdoos probably doesn't know that.
P,
What's the use of being angry?
I'm curious to see whether you have the guts to really do it.
All you guys do is talk.
Dag is also still teaching / lecturing in Canada. He haven't really killed any Muslims YET, despite all the talks.
.But jihad is an internal struggle.
this particular Hadith is not accepted as trustworthy, it is set aside in a special book of questionable reports.. we are the only people that believe them.
this Hadith was reported to have been made by Mo on the way back from a looting, murdering slaving raid... they were talking about jihad.. Mo said to his MoFo's, 'but the real Jihad begins when i return home'
this was obviously a comment about the the inherent problems of having 24 wives, and a bunch of sex slaves to contend with.. having been gone a while his bedding schedule got messed up.. some didn't get their time.. if he gives them their lost time that piss's of the others who were owed on the previous schedule..
Mo was not talking about any 'Inner Struggle', he was talking about the inherent struggle of keep'n all the Bitches happy..
Abdooss,
We are a democratic country. Hopefully, in 2012, and in the November elections, we will vote in people who will: defend American values and laws, especially in our country; curtail immigration of practicing mooslums because we feel pisslam is an *expansionist* proactively aggressive and politically regressive ideology incompatible with secular democracy and basic human rights; not be unwilling to use force in defending this country's citizens, as BO, has actually said he would not do; and who will denounce the atrocious human rights violations and gender apartied and slavery and theocracies and dictatorships of pisslamic nations in a nice speech in Cairo.
Yes, we will not hesitate to vote in people who will kill you if you continue to fuck with us. On the other hand, I am all for getting our sons and daughters out of your shitholes and letting you live as primatively as your own people will submit their human dignity to. We also have professional armies who will kill you for us. When we say we would like to bomb the fuck out of Mecca, we are speaking of retaliation for terrorist acts by mooslums, but do not ever underestimate the capacity of our citizens to protect their property and lives if push comes to shove. We have guns for that very purpose. And frankly, I wouldn't visit your country if I won an all expense paid trip. So no need to worry about me chopping your head off or "canning" you or blowing you up. But I will speak out against pisslam in my community, as is my right and patriotic duty.
American Rose,
In fact, I could not agree more - Islam and Muslim must be wiped out from the face of the earth. But why wait for another President? What you need is just a guy all fired up, to start at your own community. The soldiers will only kill OUTSIDE your soil.
Are you afraid of the Law or to be called a Serial Killer? At least Dag was not hesitant to call spade a spade.
Abdooss,
You bore me. If you agree with me, then you are the one who lives in a repressive state, so do me something. Unless of course, you think I should be killed for smoking a doobie or thinking moehammy is not a very good role model to celebrate. Otherwise, reform your society for the sake of your own people. People everywhere just want to be free.
I bet a chess game with you would be tedious.
As I thought. You won't answer my question: why do you call yourself a Muslim? My guess is that you aren't a Muslim but a leftist troll. You're more concerned with trying to get someone to say something in anger.
I was here blogging from the beginning. I advocated an educational website. Americans are ignorant of Islam. This is an intellectual battle that must come before any other measure.
Over the years we touched on concrete measures to tackle the Islamic threat but we aren’t in agreement. My suggestion is that we should stop helping Muslims. We have a 50 year record of trying to help Muslims (details on requrest). Today we are trying to help them create a civil society in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was against it from the beginning. Not everyone agrees with me.
I don't try to argue the issue because before you can take concrete measures you have to learn about the enemy. Americans haven't done that. We are helping them to understand Islam.
\"...Jason_Pappas said...
Still, Black_Rain, I would like to know why Abdooss calls himself a Muslim.../
Muslims are only allowed to know what their Imam allows them to know.. by telling them what to believe.
in a book i read about Apostates, Ali Sina said he became an Apostate because he decided to become a better Muslim by reading the Koran.. it horrified him, it destroyed his faith. even after totally falling out of faith, it took him over 2 years to actually believe it. they are so brainwashed, Muslims are VICTIMS
i REALLY MEAN IT WHEN I SAY.. the vast majority, well over 90% of Muslims are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. our Muslim poster cant defend Islam because he really by design doesn't know anything about Islam.
he buddy go to
http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Audio.Islam
read/listen to 'i don't Noah about this', 'Can Qusayy Scam?' and 'dishonest Abe'
then come back and tell us about it.
Jason,
He's not a leftist troll. His footprint is all over the internet as being a bank manager from Kuala Lumpur, who does love chess.
He may be a leftist, but he's a leftist mooslum, as you can't be anything but a mooslum in Malaysia. Think how hard it must be to be an Asian of superior intelligence worshipping an Arab madman! Oh the conflict!
MR and Pasto can confirm his IP address as being from Malaysia as well.
Here's his "Friendster" page. He says there "violence is not an option" to solving conflict, so yes, I'd say he's a leftist mooslum. Can mooslums even believe in the Zodiac? Anywho, his birthday is coming up! Happy Birthday Abdooss!
http://profiles.friendster.com/50760758
Malaysia? Thanks, American Rose, that would explain alot. Non-Arab Muslims tend not to know very much about Islam. He even admits to learn some of the concepts from us. I noticed above he seems to be ignorant of the meaning of the daily Muslim prayer. It must have been Arab gibberish to him.
Black Rain is right. Many non-Arab Muslims (like Ali Sina) are shocked when they research their religion. Perhaps Abdooss has a shock in store for himself down the line ... if he's curious about what Islam actually entails.
Abdoos is not a bad guy. He's a Muslim cuz that's what he calls himself. But, he does not adhere to the idea that Muslims ought to wage Jihad against Infidels if they don't revert to Islam or pay the Jizya (he probably doesn't know what Jizya is). He does not believe apostates, gays, and adulterers ought to be killed. He probably believes in a progressive equality for women in the workplace. He's pretty much like you and I, except he calls himself a Muslim.
He would like to talk us into the idea that his version of Islam is the real Islam. Problem is, there are no major schools of Islamic jurisprudence which agree with him.
Please don't get me wrong, I like Abdooss. I love that he will come here and talk to us. I love that on his friendster page he says there is no violent solution to conflict. I love that he works in a bank and previously as a pizza delivery man. I love that he loves chess. I love that he loves Everybody loves Raymond! I love Everybody Loves Raymond! I love that the Malaysians celebrated the Chinese moon god today! Since I'm on such a love roll, I'll confess, I'm in love with Abdooss! But he'll only accuse me of patronizing him, but that's okay, cause I love him! :)
Please don't get me wrong, I like Abdooss. I love that he will come here and talk to us. I love that on his friendster page he says there is no violent solution to conflict. I love that he works in a bank and previously as a pizza delivery man. I love that he loves chess. I love that he loves Everybody loves Raymond! I love Everybody Loves Raymond! I love that the Malaysians celebrated the Chinese moon god today! Since I'm on such a love roll, I'll confess, I'm in love with Abdooss! But he'll only accuse me of patronizing him, but that's okay, cause I love him! :)
I've never been to Abdoos' Friendster page, but if he believes there is no violent solution to conflict he is a fool.
There would have been no solution to Slavery in America, nor would there have been any solution to Nazism in Germany, minus conflict.
The facts of history prove the man wrong.
He thinks like a child.
Abdooss obviously isn't a Muslim if one means following the example of Mohammad. Mohammad was a military commander who believed war was the answer. If Abdooss can't accept war, what kind of Muslim is he?
That's why I kept asking Abdooss why he calls himself a Muslim. It only confuses people. It took me quite some time until I realized he wasn't a Muslim in any important sense. He barely knows what Islam is.
These East Asian Muslims are relatively lucky. I've spoken to quite a few. They've never been subjected to the full Monte.
Sorry guys to disappoint you, but my strategies always backfire (except in chess).
Months ago, I advocated peace, but was accused of Taquiyya. MRA mocked me. Dag said he was ready to eliminate any Muslim anywhere.
A few days ago, I urged you guys to take take the matter in your own hands. Wipe out the Evil from the face of the earth. Start in your own community. Suddenly everyone turned to be pacifists. What gives?
Jason Pappas,
I'd appreciate it if we don't go into theologies - it will never end. Sorry to ignore your demand to debate.
In chess, there are not only win or loss. We can also draw the game.
Abdooss,
It is not peace you should be advocating to us. It is a reformation of your religion, human rights, minority rights and religious freedom in your countries. If this blog bothers you, why do you read it? You went and admitted it was our right to write whatever we wanted here. Real big of you, Abdooss. Thanks for giving us permission and recognizing our rights within the laws of our land!!! This is the arrogance of mooslums that is astounding. You really think too highly of yourselves given the barbarity of your laws and societies.
See? you won't agree with whatever I said. Even when I was agreeing with your previous notions. Why? Because I'm Muslim.
American Rose,
This may sound cliche, but if my death can cause you to regain trust in humanity, so be it.
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