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‘The American Intelligence Community has finally
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Friday, November 03, 2006

"Moderate Muslims Close Ranks Around Aussie Rape Imam


I have been repeating the following sentence, incessantly, over the past few months:

There is no Muslim political organization, academic institution, media outlet, or government, of any appreciable size, anywhere in the world, which is moderate.

As I always say, I hope that someone can prove me wrong, because the implications of the above sentence are frightening and disgusting to ponder.

Read on now, as a columnist in Australia's largest daily newspaper recounts how what he thought was the community of "moderate" Muslims is now closing ranks around the Aussie Imam who has proclaimed that women who are raped should be jailed for life.

I really recommend reading this article in total. Don't just skim it. If you give it your time, and understand its implications, it will be among the most important things you will ever read in your life. Hyperbole? No, not at all. And, I will explain why at the end of this post:


Excuses over. The disgraced mufti of Australia set Muslims a test last month and they failed. That test couldn't have been easier: make Sheik Taj el-Din al-Hilaly pay for preaching that unveiled women invited rape.

Prove that Muslims can't be led by a man who says raped women must be "jailed for life". Prove we have nothing to fear from your faith.

Simple? Yet yesterday 34 Muslim groups signed a petition backing this bigot, while others plan a big rally for Sydney tomorrow, denouncing not Hilaly but the non-Muslims who criticise him.

The results are in: Islam here -- as represented by many of its leaders -- is now a threat. What's more: our culture of self-hate makes us too weak to properly resist.

I know saying such things is hard on the many moderate Muslims I keep insisting are out there. I am sorry for that, but where in God's name are those people? How much longer must we wait for them to speak?

For more than 20 years they said nothing as their most prominent imam, in their biggest mosque, damned Jews as perverts, called suicide bombers heroes, praised terror groups, vilified non-Muslims and hailed the September 11 terror attacks on the United States as "God's work against oppressors".

They said nothing as he gave the run of his mosque to a pro-bin Laden youth group and hired one of its translators as his spokesman. For years they let this man, their mufti, represent Islam in this country, whose language he never really bothered to learn in nearly 30 years of living here.

But I never lost hope, and so for a few days last week thought . . . at last!

At last we heard Hilaly being damned by Muslims, too -- by women's groups, a Melbourne University academic and even the Islamic Council of Victoria, which had foolishly helped to make this Egyptian the mufti so no government would dare deport him. At last Muslims were disowning this man. He was disinvited from a Brisbane festival. There was talk of stripping him of his title.

The Lebanese Muslim Association, which runs the Lakemba mosque, even debated sacking him as imam, before banning him from preaching for three months. No, this wasn't much, but many in the media grabbed it hungrily. We badly want to find Muslims who'll renounce the values of the hate-preachers, to show that it's not us against Islam.

Mind you, we shouldn't have had to be so pathetically grateful. What sane person could want a woman jailed for being raped?

But we should have known already this was a bigger problem than just Hilaly. Last year Lebanese Sheik Faiz Mohammed also gave a speech in Sydney, which said raped women had themselves to blame. And which of the 500 men who heard Hilaly say the same at his sermon complained? Only when it was reported in the English-speaking press did some concede Hilaly had gone too far.

Yet even then supporters sent him vanloads of flowers, and when he returned to his mosque last Friday he was greeted "like a rock star", said one paper, by an adoring crowd of 5000.

And that criticism of him? It faded away. Now the Lebanese Muslim Association isn't so ashamed of him, after all: "We did accept his apology and we want to move on."


The Muslim Women's Association, which first admitted to being "shocked" by Hilaly's sermon, now said he was "very good to all Muslim women".

Said founding president Aziz El Saddik: "Those who say bad things about him, they have very bad manners."

His sermon on rape was for Muslims only. Not our business.


But we can't afford to believe that any more. They weren't Muslim women, after all, who were raped by a Lebanese gang in Sydney, which called them "sluts" and "Aussie pigs". It wasn't a Muslim teenager who was pack-raped in Sydney by Pakistani brothers, whose father told the court: "What do (the victims) expect to happen to them? Girls from Pakistan don't go out at night."

When Hilaly preaches excuses for such rapes, that concerns us all. Very much.

But it is true that not all those defending Hilaly like what he said. The people behind tomorrow's rally say, rather, that our criticism of him has degenerated into just Muslim-bashing.

Yesterday's statement by 34 Muslim groups -- most representing Islamic colleges and students, or the Muslims of tomorrow -- says the same, even as it confirms something far more scary.
"We believe that the public scrutiny of this matter should have ended with the sheik's apology," it says.


"We believe that the Muslim community should be allowed to deal with the ramifications of the incident without interference from people who only wish to promote hostility and incite hatred towards our community. Finally, we consider this matter to be closed."

Closed? In fact, Hilaly has not retracted a word of what he said. If this matter is "closed" then he has won.

But what is most frightening is not that he's won, but how. Both this statement and the rally show he's won because even educated Muslims, born right here, think it's better to defend a Muslim bigot than to have him criticised by infidels.

It's the code of the tribe: the worst of us is better than the best of you. It's a closed community speaking -- a paranoid one that sees itself at war even with people whose only worry is that their preacher excuses rapists.

And menace is in the air. What other congregation at prayer needs to be reminded -- as Hilaly reminded those at his mosque last week -- not to punch people on the way out? Which other rally for a religious leader needs to be warned -- as the NSW Police Minister warned this week -- that police would not tolerate any violence?

I'm not surprised one of Hilaly's former advisers, Jamal Rifi, warns that if he hangs on as Lakemba's imam he may trigger "racial tensions, much bigger than what we had over the Cronulla riots".

But what are we doing to help Muslims to break from him and leave this cultural ghetto, this encampment, before things get truly ugly? Not enough. For a start, we make too many excuses for the Hilalys, as if they were mere children, or Australia the real villain.

How can a culture so sick of itself resist the kind of challenge that Hilaly and his angry supporters represent? How can it inspire young Muslims to side not with him but with us? I don't know, when we teach the young we are a country of child-stealing, land-raping, Muslim-murdering, Yank-licking, gas-belching vandals. Until that changes, expect the traffic to flow more into Hilaly's ghetto than out of it.

Just consider the radical mother of two of the Australian Muslims arrested in Yemen last week on terrorism charges, and accused of ties to al-Qaida -- a so-called former "hippy chick" from Mudgee, who found in Islam what she couldn't in the society that raised her.

As I said: Muslims have failed. But so have we all. We now have urgent work to do, if we want to save ourselves from far more strife than we dare yet imagine or say.


The reason this article is so important is because the author so clearly explains why we can not live with Muslims who believe such things.

So, what is the answer then? What do we do? Do we help them to change?
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posted by Pastorius at permanent link#

16 Comments:

Blogger Magnus A said...

The organization Demokratiske Muslimer in Denmark supports the full split between secular politics and religion. There is a canadian grassroot organization that is fairly moderate, disagree on almost any mainstreram islam ideas. There is a muslim gay organization in britain, but I do not know much about them.

Are not totalitarian islam infiltrate these organizations? I dont knoe, but if they are "ideologicaly clean", works with protection for their safety and don't sufer from any intern troubles I don´t see that there is a problem with these organizations.

The tremendeous problem is that government in most west countries support mainstream islam orginazations (which are critizized by the small moderat underground organizations) and not the real reformers. Te reformers should at least be encouraged morally and the mainstream not! Bu the big picture is the total lack of real moderate islam in official organizations, thats true!!! (...and alsp amitted as the truth by e.g. the danish Demokratiske muslimer, Irshad Manji and other threatened reformers.)

Friday, November 03, 2006 12:56:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Magnus,
Are the organizations of which you are speaking of any consequential size? Are there threats on the live of the priciples of the organizations?

Friday, November 03, 2006 2:41:00 am  
Blogger KG said...

We can't "help them to change". They don't want to change and they don't see the need for change. They intend to change our society and they're well on the way to succeeding.
I'm not interested in changing them anyway. I just want to see them out of Western countries. If they won't leave voluntarily then life should be made very, very uncomfortable for them.
They're a menace and a foul blot on free societies.

Friday, November 03, 2006 5:28:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Yes, I can't imagine how we could help them to change anyway, KG.

Friday, November 03, 2006 5:31:00 am  
Anonymous infidel babe of the week first spaniard fan said...

The real problem is that reformers and open-minded muslim organizations are, as we say in Spain 'four guys and the one of the banner', what means 'extremely small'. They don't represent the Islam at all.

Friday, November 03, 2006 6:36:00 am  
Anonymous Michael said...

Years ago, I was saved from a lynching in a village adjacent to Ramallah, by two "Palestinian" Arabs. I stayed in my rescuer's home for over 24 hours, eating, chatting, and drinking Israeli (Goldstar) beer. When we speak of Islam, Islamists or "Muslims"...we are not referring to the people who rescued me or the thousands who have assisted the IDF throughout the years. An Islamist follows the Koran as it is written, and carries out the original and true intent of their "Prophet's" commands. [http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/fox_imm.htm]

Whether an Islamist is an Arab, Pakistani, Indonesian, or one of the thousands of converts who attend terrorist training camps in upstate New York or elsewhere in North America, he can be expected to carry out the "Prophet's" command to wage Jihad and kill all non-believers (Kafirs). As a Jew, I am commanded by the G_d of Abraham also; "Im ba l'hargekha, hashkem l'hargo," "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him (first)." Moreover, G_d has commanded me to defend my neighbours also...and not sit idly by and wait for a call to 911. ["All those of valour shall pass armed among your brethren, and shall help them." Joshua 1:14-]

Make no mistake about it, when the call goes out, your "moderate" but observant Muslim friend down at the 7-11 and the kindly Pakistani Internist at the local hospital, will carry out the "Prophet's" command. To do otherwise would be to deny the truth of the Holy Koran. The penalty for apostasy is quite harsh in Islam...fence-sitters tend to lose their heads.

The Koran and Islam's enforcers (Imams) have been telling the West for over 1,500 years that there are no "moderate Muslims"...it's time to believe them.

Kol tuv,

Michael

"And he said to them, 'When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?' They said, 'Nothing.' He said to them, 'But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one." Luke 22:35-36

Friday, November 03, 2006 8:31:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Michael,
You're a Jew who quotes Luke? Are you a believer in Yeshua?

Friday, November 03, 2006 9:34:00 am  
Anonymous Michael Travis said...

No, I am not a Christian...however the most dedicated and committed defenders of Israel are. Jeff Epstein of ATF has been the guest of many Christian congregations and only yesterday met with Pat Robertson in Virginia Beach. Much of our support for the Symposium (Nov.10-11 Las Vegas has come from the Christian community.

I quoted Luke as a reminder that G_d's Commandments (contrary to the beliefs of some revisionists)were not annulled by the early Christians. Christians also are commanded to defend their neighbour and their faith.

Check out my friends in Texas;

http://www.battalionofdeborah.org/blog

I'll be listening to Frank's show tomorrow afternoon....Resa is a friend also.

Friday, November 03, 2006 10:26:00 am  
Anonymous religion of pieces said...

Show me a moderate Muslim and I'll show you a Muslim. When push comes to shove, loyalty to fellow members of the Scummah trumps everything else.

This tribalist mentality, inherent in the Koran, precludes muslims from ever participating in civilised societies, other than as predators and parasites.

Muslims expect a little give and take from the Kuffar. We give, they take.

Friday, November 03, 2006 10:46:00 am  
Anonymous Magnus Andersson said...

"the kindly Pakistani Internist at the local hospital, will carry out the "Prophet's" command. To do otherwise would be to deny the truth of the Holy Koran. The penalty for apostasy is quite harsh in Islam...fence-sitters tend to lose their heads."

Not if that kindly Pakistani NOT believes and embraces the fundamentalistic (now mainstream) islamic world view, but instead a reformed modern view with no sharia ideas and punishment. Were all people are fully equal and Quran shall be symbolically interpreted, just as modern christian and jews interpret the Torah and Old Testament. Or?

This does not exist today as organized official islam, thats true! But when the sharia islam are beaten, what will the 60% of brittish muslims that oppose religious influence on state laws do? If they create new real moderate muslim organizations, will even these bother us? Yes, if they still have a aggressive agenda. No, if they show no signs of such an agenda!

Thats what I think, and I think good muslim organization, which today not exists, might be a good help in the -- with non-ambigious firm politics -- victory against fundamentalism islam.

I also think that a reformed islam will be in war with old islam, not change it through dialoge. A split which is a sign of a truly reformed islam. The old islam, with its non-human interpretation of Quran et c, I don't think can gradually change. (Efforts to negotiate there is waste of time! Just don't accept any oppressing islamic rules or law!)

Friday, November 03, 2006 1:56:00 pm  
Blogger Epaminondas said...

Anyone a westerner could consider to be a moderate will be ..takfir'd to apostate...the end.

We just have to HOPE that enough muslims whose consciences are revolted by the salafist and khomeinist freaks, are not discouraged by such a label but wear it s a badge of honor.

Otherwise, invest in dried foods...

Friday, November 03, 2006 2:10:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Michael Travis,
I absolutely agree with you that the Old Testament were not nullified by Christ the Messiah's appearence, or by His death and resurrection.

I don't understand where Christians got that idea. But, it has led to a couple thousand years of Christian anti-Semititsm. That's a couple thousand years of people who, at best, will be forgiven by the Messiah who says to the Father, "forgive them, for they know not what they are doing."

Friday, November 03, 2006 2:44:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Magnus,

Here's the only possible peaceful solution I can think of at this point:

We start by deporting the radicals, which will likely cause more radicals to come out of the closet, and then we deport them, and we keep deporting until we find out how many truly moderate Muslims there are.

This will require the deporting of literally hundreds of thousans, and probably millions of Muslims, and it will require that it be done in short order. The reason it needs to be done quickly is to impress severity upon those who remain behind. They must become convinced that they are defeated. And, the quickness will also bring out the other radicals, which will lead to the real rooting out of all radicals, not just the ones who are stupid enough to continually spout out everything they think.

The fact is, Europe does not at this time, have the will to enact such a policy, and there would be the problem of where to send those who are actually born in Europe.

What is your solution, Magnus?

Friday, November 03, 2006 2:48:00 pm  
Anonymous Michael Travis said...

Magnuss---I haven't seen the U.K. poll of which you refer to, however the City of Bradford [UK} has had an "Islamic Parliament for decades and their residents overwhelmingly support Sharia Law for the entire planet. It must also be noted that Muslims responding to a UK poll would certainly be aware that they risk being brought up on charges of incitement if militant views were to be made public knowledge.

From Daniel Pipe's blog;

Sep. 22, 2005 update: The Federation of Student Islamic Societies, a British organization, released the results of its survey of 466 British Muslim students, taken in August, that shows:

* Percentage who see a conflict between loyalty to the ummah (the global Muslim community) and loyalty to the UK: 27 percent.
* Do not condemn the London attacks: 4 percent.
* Do not think organisations accused of extremism should be shut down: 52 percent.
* Would not inform the police that a fellow Muslim is planning an attack: 18 percent.

This as good a place as any to note the results of two ICM polls of 500 random Muslims contacted by telephone dating from 2004, both done for the Guardian newspaper. The first was conducted March 3-11, 2004:

* Condemn all forms of violence, but if one had to live in the same situation as a Palestinian, might consider becoming a suicide bomber: 47 percent.
* Regard further attacks by Al Qaeda, or similar organizations, on the USA as justified: 13 percent.

The other was asked in the period November 15-21, 2004:

* The Muslim community in Britain is integrated too much already into mainstream British culture: 20 percent.
* Find it acceptable for religious or political groups to use violence for political ends: 11 percent.
* Disagree with the idea that Muslims should inform on people who are involved or connected with terrorist activities: 25 percent.
* Disagree with the idea that people who criticise Islam are simply exercising their rights to free speech: 38 percent.
* Back Shari`a courts to settle civil cases among Muslims, so long as penalties do not break the law: 61 percent.
* Agree that there should be a new law to make incitements to religious hatred a criminal offence: 81 percent.
* Agree that despite the right to free speech, in Britain, those who insult or criticise Islam should face criminal prosecution: 58 percent.
* Schools should not be allowed to ban female pupils from wearing the hijab on the premises: 55 percent.
* Schools and workplaces should accommodate Muslim prayer times as part of their normal day: 88 percent.
* Say that the Muslim Council of Britain Muslim generally does not reflect his or her views: 45 percent.
* Consider marrying somebody who was not a Muslim: 62 percent.
* Disagree that a member of one's immediate family could marry somebody who was not a Muslim: 53 percent.

Resa Kirkland has interviewed an apostate Muslim several times;

http://www.warchick.com/2005/060205.htm

http://www.warchick.com/2005/110705.htm

http://www.warchick.com/2006/022506.htm

Resa will join Pastorius on the Gathering Storm Radio Programme today (Friday 03, November)Noon to 2PM PST

Listen here; http://www.wideawakesradio.com

On a more positive note, the spread of Western culture (Rock music, Rap, Jazz, films etc.) has undermined Islam in even the most crazed Islamic societies i.e. Iran, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia!

Friday, November 03, 2006 4:09:00 pm  
Anonymous Foxy said...

Boys,

What are your thoughts about the following organisation which includes muslims as well as people of other religons.

I think their manifesto makes interesting reading:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1952258,00.html



http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/new_generation_network/2006/11/why_we_need_a_new_discourse_on.html


http://www.new-gen.org/

F

Sunday, December 03, 2006 3:17:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Foxy,
Our fight is not against a race of people.

Our fight is against the Jihad and the Jihadis.

I would define a Jihadi as a person, of the Muslim faith, who believes that it is his duty to wage violent Jihad against the Infidels and the Jews. Also, Jihadis usually, if not always, believe in a very strict interpretaion of Islam whereby they think it is right to stone people to death for apostasy, homosexuality, and adultery.

We believe that notion is evil.

We also are against the enslavement of women which goes on in countries like Saudi Arabia, where women are not allowed to choose how to dress, whom to marry, whether to go outside, whether to get an education, or who to associate with.

I don't know about that organization, but they seem to have picked the Muslim Council of Britain as one of their enemies. I don't like the Muslim Council of Britain, so it seems to me that we might have something in common.

Sunday, December 03, 2006 3:26:00 pm  

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