Tuesday, November 01, 2011

Message to True Christian Friends of Jews

From Will at The Other News:
There are many different Christian churches, groups and movements. Some call themselves Zionists or good and true Christians. Many of them are deeply antagonistic toward mainstream Catholics and Anglicans. And they disassociate themselves from the actions of their church in the past. 

Just recently, the Pope, leader of 1.1 billion Catholics, deliberately omitted Israel from the list of countries suffering from Islamic terror in his speech. Following his example, an Anglican archbishop did not mention two Jews as victims of London bombings.

Some Church leaders are still advocating divestment from Israel, but not from Muslim countries linked to Islamic terrorism! We have not been hearing condemnations made by "true Christians" of the anti-Semitic behaviour and Israel-bashing by their Christian brothers in the past and the present.  

Most of them are silent about Arab terrorism in Israel, anti-Semitic acts in their own countries and anti-Israel discriminatory behaviour of the UN, EU, Red Cross and USA as well. True friendship can be measured only by actions!

The inaction of church leaders and the Christian leadership of the US and European governments against the spreading of Islamic terror is appalling and borders on criminal negligence. For many years they have been ignoring the warnings about Islamic expansionistic ambitions. They ignore the fact, that true Islamists hate Christians even more than Jews. Now they are experiencing the result of their duplicity. Europe is under the flame of Islamic fire but the hypocrites still are not able to face the reality and are playing the dangerous game of political correctness, ignorance and providing false justifications to basic Islamic hate toward anything that is not Muslim!

From the Jewish point of view it is difficult to distinguish the true friends among the Christian groups. Most of them claim friendship but actually have sinister motives. The Messianic Christians, for example, consider themselves as 'good Christians'. This is in spite of the fact that the main objective of the Messianic church is to prove the validity of Christian teachings by converting lost Jewish souls to Christianity. They believe, as many before them, that the increase in the number of Jewish Christians is an indication that the Church is G-d's true religion. In the past the forceful conversion of Jews was a preferred method, but proved ineffective.

Unfortunately, many Christian groups and organisations still believe and practice the old traditional theology of hate or misguided envy toward Jews. They ignore the fact that conversion of Jews to Christianity is actually against the will of the G-d and undermines the most important Christian doctrine of the Second coming. It diminishes the chance of all Jews to come to Israel, as He commanded for the arrival of the Jewish Messiah.  

Effectively, due to deeply imbedded anti-Semitism or pathological jealousy, many branches of the Church have been sabotaging the Second coming of their Messiah by evangelising Jews.

I respect any belief system as long as they do not discriminate against others. At the same time, I demand the same respect toward my people, our traditions and our rights from others. True friendship is a two way street. Jews welcome moral and political support for Israel from the non-Jewish friends. But it must be given without any ulterior motives.  

The good Christian friends must not be frustrated when Jews criticize the anti-Semitic behaviour of the Church. Most often, the Church practice and religion have very little in common!

If you follow the Bible's message of love, you are on the right side and have nothing to be concerned about. The bottom line is - your teacher was a Jew and it is difficult to distort his message of love!
 Read the full story here.

21 comments:

Karen Carroll said...

Thank you for warning us of this danger. My mother is currently under care in a Jewish nursing center. She will never have to leave there. It is a complete facility with hospital that can take care of her in all levels of her health and life. She is happy there and the home has the best reputation in the area. I've always respected Jews. and could not understand the distrust and hatred of Jews by other Christians. Jesus was a Rabbi and a JEW. The neighboring Jewish temple offered use of their sanctuary when our church was burned. We gladly accepted and studied the Jewish roots or Christianity. We even went there during Jewish holidays as guests.

Pastorius said...

Personally, I do not think it is anti-Semitic to tell Jews about the Christian faith.

But, I do think it is ridiculous for any Christian to tell any other person that they are going to hell if they don't believe exactly exactly as Christians believe.

That is arrogance.

Anonymous said...

«call on the moderates!»




lol
just kidding :D

Anonymous said...

Pastorius

what's your take on that part of the bible that says eve was made of adam's rib?

Anonymous said...

«Jesus was a Rabbi»

jesus was a carpenter

Anonymous said...

«The inaction of church leaders and the Christian leadership of the US and European governments against the spreading of Islamic terror is appalling and borders on criminal negligence.»


yep.

Anonymous said...

«...many branches of the Church have been sabotaging the Second coming of their Messiah by evangelising Jews.»


what do you mean?

Anonymous said...

To lump those in the Messianic Jewish/Messianic Christian movement into a story about physical persecution of Jews and those who turn a blind eye to it is absolutely ridiculous. This group of people is committed to the building of Israel and the Jewish people and gives of their time, money, and effort to help the Jewish people. You will not find a group who takes more seriously the command in Genesis to the bless the Children Of Jacob.

Moreover, the author tries to have it both ways. One the one hand the author says that Jesus is the Jewish teacher of the Messianic Jew/Christian and insinuates that Christians engage in some soft form of anti-Semitism. The author also says that Messianics undermine Jesus' teachings when they invite Jews to accept Jesus as the Living Jewish Messiah. But on the other hand, the author ignores Jesus' statements that (a) He and the Father are One and (b) He is the only way to the Father and also ignores Jesus' command to teach others and make disciples of all nations.

Messianic groups may cause the author discomfort--theological or otherwise--but to lump them in with groups that are actively antagonistic toward Israel and the Jewish people does a disservice to Israel, the Jewish people, the Messianic groups, and the bonds of friendship shared between them.

As an example of how much you should fear the Messianic movement, in 2006, the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA, headed by Joel Chernoff) donated over $70 million in relief to the people of Israel and enjoys great relations with the Israeli government. These people go to places like Sderot where the need and danger is greatest. Best-selling author Joel Rosenberg's Joshua Fund has given millions to Jews, Christians, and Muslims in need in the Land of Israel. Barry and Batya Segal, who are Messianic Jewish singers, have established Vision for Israel, which delivers aid to the needy in Israel. The Messianics render aid to the needy in the Land and reduce the burdens on the government. They are good for the people and good for the land.

It is my deeply held belief that God has set up one way, His only mandated way, to come to him. It has been that way since the time of Cain and Able when Cain tried to offer a sacrifice on his strength and not in keeping with God's design to have a blood sacrifice. I believe that, just as He said, Jesus is the only way and the only blood sacrifice acceptable to God. If that is the truth, and I believe it is, then I have an obligation to share that truth. But, that is where my obligation ends. After that, the choice is yours. We will all have to answer the question that Jesus asked to Peter, "Who do you say I am?" Peter recognized him as the Messiah and the Son of God. He accepted Peter's response and called him "blessed."

Pastorius said...

Well put, Anonymous. However, you do not know what goes on in people's hearts. You can share the message. But, the mistake I see my fellow Christians making is, when they share they message, they also set themselves up as the Judge of whether the message was received. That part is up to God.

A wise man told me, Do the work and leave the results up to God.

Pastorius said...

Anonymous,
Jesus was a Rabbi AND a carpenter.

In the Bible, he is referred to by fellow Jews as "Rabbi".

Epaminondas said...

It doesn't matter what we call Jesus, does it really?
Nor does it matter if Christian Zionists are that because in the last days they expect all Jews to recognize Jesus.

There is more than one path of and to righteousness. If some complete morons want to believe that salvation lies only along one, and it's theirs, that's on them and they will have to have an answer for that, but not to me.

Regardless of what the REAL ANSWER IS, we all have a responsibility to do right HERE and NOW. To some Christians who expect Jews to convert at the last moment that means they are compelled to recognized that there MUST be an Israel in this world, and therefore they do and say what they do.

RIGHTEOUS ACTS are always to be lauded.

Even if the ultimate goal will never be recognized.

;)

Anonymous said...

Epa, I am curious. What is your authority for believing that there are many paths to salvation?

Judaism was a proselytizing religion until some time in the fourth Century in response to prohibitions set up by the Roman Empire. So, there are historical factual grounds to believe that Judaism, at least as it was understood by the ancient practitioners, laid claim to some exclusive path. Christianity and Islam also claim exclusivity.

Many modern practitioners of Judaism believe that the gentiles are accountable for keeping the Noachide commands. One of those commands is to refrain from idolatry. If Jesus is not G-d, as He claimed, then Christians are idolaters and worthy of judgment.

So, I would just like to know what authority you use to support your contention that there are many paths to salvation. You are a smart person, but I do not think that your own reasoning qualifies as authoritative on this subject. Not trying to be rude with that remark, but I am looking for a religious text or a ruling from the Sages.

Epaminondas said...

Anonymous you are about to argue FAITH with me. One CANNOT argue faith.

My authority?

Allow me to follow the path of a far more experienced man, Disraeli .."Wise men never say"

If you ask this question, BTW, you HAVE MADE MY POINT

The Torah, the Talmud, the new Testament, the Quran .. ALL MAN MADE.

PLEASE COME OUT FROM BEHIND ANON

Anonymous said...

Ok. So, you have no real authority on which you base your opinion. Fair enough, but let's not act like your contention that there are many paths to heaven is supported by any authoritative source.

Epaminondas said...

There is NO source.

Every single source you can name is a man just like you and just like me.

I recognize no 'sage' as having a superior ability to reason god's mind.

" Fair enough, but let's not act like your contention that there are many paths to heaven is supported by any authoritative source."

FOOLISH DOGMA BASED ON THE WORDS OF OTHER MEN which render sovereignty to a source OTHER than the minds of men ... which , of course, is PRECISELY what the salafists all think

NOW COME OUT FROM BEHIND your anonymity

Epaminondas said...

BTW, this kind of wording..." So, there are historical factual grounds to believe that Judaism, at least as it was understood by the ancient practitioners, laid claim to some exclusive path"...

IS BULL.

In fact Chanukah which preceeded Jesus by centuries was fought because assimilated jews (the majority) could have cared less about all that, as is precisely true today.

And AS today only a TINY minority, WITHIN a minority, the Chabad care about this, and THEY mainly work with Jews they consider to insufficiently wedded to dogma.

The proselytizing done IN THE TIMES OF SOLOMONIC -> Assyrian capitivy was AMONG such 'lapsed' jews. Among those who kept statues of what they thought of as God's wife.

This is all crap. If you have some PROOF, not faith PROOF, of a singular path to salvation, let's see it.

And that is why faith cannot be argued

Anonymous said...

I am not arguing that there is one path or many paths to salvation. I am simply saying that you have NO BASIS for your assertion that there are many paths to salvation. In other words, you are just pulling it out of your hind quarters.

Your belief that there are many paths to Salvation flies in the face of the sages of both Judaism and Christianity. I can point to authoritative sources in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam that say there is only one path to Salvation (while they ultimately disagree on who or what that path is). You, my friend, however, can point to no source except your own machinations. Why should anyone trust you rather than the sages as the authority on the subject?

Epaminondas said...

You have completely MISSED the import of my point... since there is no proof because FAITH is beleif in the absence of proof - there ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS SAGES.

Aristotle is a sage and he was dead wrong on a very large % of things. The 'sages' at the Council of Nicaea kicked of a millenium of brutality, and were highly respected for it.
My 'friend'.

You make assertions with absolutely NO BACK UP, you can point, there are foundations .. go for it.

At the base of every single one will be a human IDENTICAL to you and I whose ideas are based on faith, NOT PROOF.

Please point, get out your url's.

I have been down this road with the muslims I converse with in the gulf for YEARS.

My basis is NO LESS worthy AS FACT than the Rambam, Akiva, or other 'sages' such a Luther (a notorius racist) or Al Gahzali (Averroes).

All ends up as derived thought founded on faith.

To dispute over this is ABSURD.

PS, Somerset Maugham, and many others agree - as if NUMBERS matter.

I know muslims who believe Mother Theresa is in hell, and that is based on 'sages' opinions of the Quran. My Rabbi believes there IS NO HELL and we are all saved, and points to sages, and her compadres on God Squad on the radio all agree there are many paths along many 'Razor's Edge's' based on others.. BUT SO WHAT?

When it comes to FAITH this cannot be argued.

What is pious to one is a POMPOUS ASS to another who may do more good in the real world than some sage.

I fail to see why this is difficult to comprehend.

To believe that God has engendered EXCLUSIVITY to salvation, btw, defies one the few bases of ALL Judaism, of ALL TIME, Tikkun Olam, that jews are here to repair the world. NOT BE SAVED via some special path whose meanderings are inevitably based on the word of man as THEY see God thru their own weaknesses, ignorances, and bigotries.

The reward IS the path.

The OLDEST of Judasim, from the Torah dictates only a very few holidays. The most important in this vein is Yom Kippur, and NOWHERE is salvation mentioned. In fact it recognizes EXPLICITLY that if you die, and you are able to atone, it asks YOU BE FORGIVEN which is all that is asked for those who live as well.

But my point is that when it comes to issues of faith, I am second to NO SAGE, and neither is anyone else.

God gave us all minds to work it out. Otherwise well trained dogs know the difference between right and wrong with training.

Anonymous said...

there's a problem with this messianic thing. for some the messiah will be on earth for the second time, for some it will be the first time! lol



But on the other hand, the author ignores Jesus' statements that (a) He and the Father are One and (b) He is the only way to the Father and also ignores Jesus' command to teach others and make disciples of all nations.


even making disciples of other christians? hilarious!



Best-selling author Joel Rosenberg's Joshua Fund has given millions to Jews, Christians, and Muslims in need in the Land of Israel.

you give money to muslims while there are other christians in need? disgusting!



I can point to authoritative sources in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam that say

whoa!
why does a christian says terrorist, pedophile islam as authoritative source? what kind of christian are you? sick!



Christianity and Islam also claim exclusivity.

islam is freaking cult!




Pastorius said...
Anonymous,
Jesus was a Rabbi AND a carpenter.

In the Bible, he is referred to by fellow Jews as "Rabbi".

Tuesday, November 01, 2011 6:50:00 PM



it doesn't mean he was a rabbi.

Anonymous said...

Epaminondas


why jews don't think jesus is the messiah?

Anonymous said...


To believe that God has engendered EXCLUSIVITY to salvation, btw, defies one the few bases of ALL Judaism, of ALL TIME, Tikkun Olam, that jews are here to repair the world.



?
masonry?



«Semites, especially the Arabs, are "degenerate in spirituality...»
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Blavatsky