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"Anyone can act presidential. "
It's a lot harder to do what I do.


Friday, August 03, 2007

“If Muslims revered cattle…” - excerpt

Alert reader Shefaly pointed me in the direction of this piece by Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times of UK “If Muslims revered cattle, Shambo would still be mooing“) re. Shambo, a bull in Wales that had tested positive for tuberculosis. Shambo was executed by lethal injection on Thursday (26th) night despite protests from the Hindu community.
A brief excerpt from Rod’s article (emphasis mine):
“…I wonder…if the members of the (Welsh) assembly would have dared to make their decision if it were Muslims rather than Hindus who chose to revere cattle?
And what would have happened if they did? By now there would be priests set alight from Jakarta to Rabat, effigies burnt, fatwas issued. Cardiff airport would be missing an international departure gate.
The assembly would probably have come up with a compromise: okay, the bull lives but it has to wear a burqa when it goes out.
I suppose Britain’s Hindus can console themselves with the thought that having their sensibilities trampled on suggests they are a community with whom the rest of us feel at ease and can thus victimise with impunity.“
Sounds eerily familiar.
See also: Of “Sacred Bulls”, Divinity & Development
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posted by B Shantanu at permanent link#


Blogger WATCHER71 said...

How about not freaking out at interfaith/ethnic relationships (In line with the rest of the non South Asian UK population)...to and beyond ...violence....Caste system anyone (Lighter is brighter!!..or is that higher...)...Oh remember Ghandi..and his ...love and admiration for the duskier people...in S.A....victimise...I don't think so...nice try...you'll be saying your poor and discriminated in employment next....

Saturday, August 04, 2007 12:22:00 am  
Blogger WATCHER71 said...

Besides ..the bull had an infectious live stock disease...it had to go...sorry....disease control....not victimisation...

Saturday, August 04, 2007 12:23:00 am  
Blogger WATCHER71 said...

Rod Liddle left his post as editor of the BBC's Today programme in 2002, after a row about impartiality in an article he wrote for The Guardian. He was formerly a speechwriter for the Labour Party.

Read as wrote PC (Afraid to be crtical of any body) BS for the ineffectual Blair Govt...no doubt..

Saturday, August 04, 2007 12:34:00 am  
Blogger WATCHER71 said...

B Shantanu....you want to help the situation? You really want to help....get your community to integrate, stop hating other non South Asian peoples, and be vocaly critical of oppression, discrimination and racism....WHERE EVER you see it. UK population....knows the reality of this situation...It's easy to deflect heat from yourself..by putting it on some one else...I rage aginst racism from the black community and the white community...where ever,when ever I see it. Look to yourself and do the same.

Pastorius...this is classic use of our Liberalism, as I mentioned...I am of course...assuming the commenter (B Shantanu) is South Asian...from the name...but you get the point...PEACE TO ALL MEN AND WOMEN OF LOVE. WAR TO ALL THOSE OF HATE. I'm not standing for the whitewash any more.!!!!

Saturday, August 04, 2007 12:43:00 am  
Blogger WATCHER71 said...

I mean it's not like disease control is vital amongst our livestock....


Foot and mouth disease returns
Francis Elliott and Valerie Elliott

Government vets were battling last night to contain an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease in an attempt to avert a repeat of the crisis that crippled the British countryside in 2001.

They began the cull of 64 cattle at a small farm near Guildford, in Surrey, after the animals tested positive for the disease.

The movement of all cattle, pigs, sheep and goats anywhere in Britain was suspended as part of the contingency plans drawn up after the last outbreak. All livestock within 3km (1.8 miles) of the farm were being tested and a 10km surveillance zone was in place last night.

Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, and Hilary Benn, the Environment Secretary, abandoned their summer holidays to travel back to London to deal with the emergency.Officials are desperate to avoid a recurrence of the outbreak in 2001, when more than 6.5 million animals were killed at a cost to the economy of £8 billion

Saturday, August 04, 2007 2:05:00 am  
Blogger WATCHER71 said...

Re Of “Sacred Bulls”, Divinity & Development

Yeah sounds great....only the philosophies described there bear NO relationship to the way Hindu's interact with non Hindu's in an Urban context....but don't believe me...ask any non Hindu who lives where there are LOTS of Hindu's.....or is it a cultural thing...Who knows...but you've lost an awful lot of friends over the years....needlesly so...our grandparents were united in adversity when the NF showed their love for us....and then you got fat and greedy....and showed the rest of us contempt........not good, not good.

Saturday, August 04, 2007 4:53:00 am  
Anonymous B Shantanu said...

watcher71: Thanks for your comments.

You said, "get your community to integrate, stop hating other non South Asian peoples, and be vocaly critical of oppression, discrimination and racism" - Absoluetly. Have a look at this post I wrote on my blog a while ago:


And I get the feeling that you have misunderstood me. I understand the need to have the bull culled. I am not against that at all. I was merely referring to apparently different standards being followed for different people.

I did not understand your last comment at all. Can you pl. elaborate?

Saturday, August 04, 2007 9:26:00 am  
Blogger WATCHER71 said...

As the NavyaShastra site says, “The caste system, as it is currently structured, spiritually disenfranchises the vast majority of Hindus” and unless there is a will to change ”from the Hindu leadership itself”, we cannot expect much. It also mentions how the traditional interpretation of Dharma leaves no place for “Non-Hindus who wish to convert to Hinduism” and how the established orthodoxy must put its full weight behind the reform to help it succeed.

Dear B Shantanu,

Yes ! yes! the link to the article....that is exactly the kind of thinking that I want to see in the Hindu/ South Asian community. Indeed it is the concept of the untouchable that I feel the South Asian/Hindu community applies, in a graduated way, to Non South Asian peoples here in the UK, unchallenged. You are clearly aware of the damage the caste system does to your community internally, now I ask you apply that same understanding and depth to the problem of Inter Ethnic interactions....Particularly between South Asian and Non South Asians. I hope you are aware that relations here in the UK are almost broken down. I am sure that you could quote professionals Hindu's who would claim to disagree...ask them what they would do if their daughter started dating a non Asian....and better yet a black...there you will find a problem....much as though she were dating an untouchable...what do you think that does to Inter Ethnic relations (Neighbourliness etc). Black people feel an air of hostility and contempt that emanates almost Universally from our day to day interactions with the South Asian community, and indeed a very few, more progressive Desi are now discussing this issue.

In my last comment I was alluding to the joint history of our two peoples. Both of whom are from the British Empire, answered the call when Hitler threatened Britain, both of whom immigrated to the UK and were welcomed by the National Front. I remember my grandfather a black Hispanic Jamaican man and semi professional cricket player (the great Unifier!)often standing watch over Desi team mates houses (with others, white black and Asian) because the National Front had poured petrol through the mail box of their family home and lit it, the night before, back in the 70's. Fast forward to today, and the once friendly relations are distinctly cold...it feels as though the more affluent Desi community, particularly Hindu community, look upon the less affluent....as untouchable...

I think Desi peoples look at Afro-Carib people and see a people whom they perceive have low morals, no sense of family values etc and as such write them off as untouchable....without recognising the impact of slavery, followed by the process of plantocratic racism in the British context. The legacy of slavery is still with us today. The end result of this is that where once there was support from the Black British population there is now a sense of disappointment in the Desi population. We stood shoulder to shoulder with you against the fascists, and now the perception is that you reply with an intensity of racism that even White Britains, as a rule, find unacceptable. I have always been an admirer of the strength of the Desi family....as it is this that is the strength of the community, it is this that has seen the Desi community advance in British society, through education. I am unusual in that both of my parents have PHD's, and I will continue my studies until I eventually have mine, unfortunately many in the Afro Carib community (because of the break down in the family unit and structure of community, as a result of plantocratic racism....generations ago...if you are not familiar with this term ..look it up...as it is central to this point) just don't have/pursue this option.

On greed..well..in short... slum land lords....property prospectors, who buy multiple properties and then leave them empty, speculating on the property value to increase...in the Midst of the worst housing crisis Britain has seen since the Blitz...naked profiteering...sure make a buck...but not to the detriment of the wider community.

Indeed it would seem that I did misunderstand your post re the bull....I understand that the situation is sensitive, and I can see how the Hindu community would feel that the wider Anglo community will mess with you but not the Muslims, I am not unsympathetic....this I think is a legitimate concern...although on balance I think that that due to the nature of the issue (as yet another foot and mouth outbreak today shows), even at the risk of civil disorder, if this were a Muslim issue, it would still would have been euthanised...

the very core of my beliefs is to vocally rebel against ANY form of persecution or DISCRIMINATION where ever and when ever I see it. I am as critical of the pious Christian who devoutly goes to church on a Sunday and then the rest of the week treats others without compassion....as I am racism in the Desi community...I welcome more critical thinkers like yourself....indeed people of your community need to challenge negative aspects of that community...as I do mine...I welcome you with an open hand as a friend and campaigner....may our paths cross again..soon
regards Watcher71.

Saturday, August 04, 2007 3:54:00 pm  

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