Saturday, May 02, 2009
Reality Check: Demographics
Now, many readers are not Christians and will disagree with the evangelical message at the end of the above video.
But if not Christian evangelizing, what are the acceptable and practical alternatives leading to the preservation of Western culture?
We are running out of time to find those alternatives!
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31 comments:
Somewhere, earlier this week, I read a comment about this video-gone-viral - recognizing the subject thesis resembles that of Mark Steyn's "America alone".
Now, having viewed this video several times, there are points made in this video which nag for confirmation. For instance The 8-Million Muslim Lie.
Is there a website or source link for the data used in the video?
HRW
that sucks
Always-My take:
It is time for the Christian church to elevate the 'view' of stay -at-home MOTHERS... Personal
EX: When I decided to Homeschool my off-spring...(and-I might add-volunteer my time to various groups) I got this at church:
"What do you do?"
" I am homeschooling and taking care of my home.."
Next ??:
"Yes, but- what do you REALLY do-don't you WORK?"
I even got that from a pastor....
Being a child raising Mom was the HARDEST - most fulfilling work I have ever done...
We women must wake up to our 'superior' calling..and it must be valued....
Carol-CS
christian soldier,
I personally don't mind evangelizing or stay at home moms, problem is, is that neither of those things are likely to be enough, but there better than absolutely nothing. If more European women were Stay at home moms, it might help, since they would have more time to raise children, and thus might be more willing to have more than one child.
Europe really needs to put a temporary halt on all immigration from the middle east, except Israel. In addition it needs to put a halt on immigration from all Islamic societies until they show tolerance for other religions and begin embracing western Values. But they really have to prove they are doing those things, before Europe should reverse that policy with any Muslim society.
Well, I could say "Objectivism", but that would annoy the Christians as much as "Christian evangelism" annoys me. However, much as it may seem so, this is not a problem that can be bred out of existence. It is philosophical and cultural, people's thinking has to change either to prevent a violent conflict or to sustain us through one and rebuild afterwards.
I'm all for home schooling. It has almost become a necessity. If I were a young woman with kids I would much rather school them myself than try to undo the damage they would suffer every day in the public school system.
On the other hand, I'd also like to think that my life had value even if I chose not to have children. That bias cuts both ways, I've found.
Revereridesagain,
I personally don't agree with much of Objectivist Philosophy, but I would much rather you and Bosch be Objectivists, than Muslim Jihadists and I'd much rather Europe be Objectivist than Islamic. The biggest problem with trying to convert the Muslim Jihadists already in Europe to Objectivism is that they will be even less likely to accept it than Christianity, since it would be even further from their original way of thinking. But if it could work, it would be worth it, it would be better than Europe being Islamized.
But in the meantime, they really shouldn't just be letting anyone into Europe from hostile societies, with cultures that have values ingrained that are hostile to western values, such as freedom of consciousness.
Actually, I think Christians evangelizing to Muslims is an excellent idea. Just removing them from a violent and intolerant religion to a benign one eliminates the dangers inherent in Islam's violent theology. Had Europeans been successful in doing so, or had they at least insisted that Muslims adopt Christian tolerance as a prerequisite for residency, we would be in much less trouble now.
From Muslim Jihadist straight to Objectivist is a scary thought! I would want to be really, really sure that person left all his intellectual baggage behind. But renunciation of jihad and Islamism for a more rational outlook is not unheard of in a jihadist, for example Walid Shoebat.
To my knowledge, we have no reliable data as to how many Moslems are in living in the United States right now.
Christian Soldier,
It seems to me that most households in urban and suburban areas are two-worker households -- many times out of economic necessity because of the cost of living in those areas and, of course, because the cost of a college education. Controlling those expenses via frugality is getting almost impossible in certain areas. Yet, those are the areas which offer the most and the best-paying employment.
I don't disagree at all with your comment! Just pointing out a reality I've noticed.
BTW, I work with groups of homeschoolers. Most are operating on a shoestring budget because almost all the mothers are stay-at-home moms.
Revereridesagain,
You wrote,
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Actually, I think Christians evangelizing to Muslims is an excellent idea. Just removing them from a violent and intolerant religion to a benign one eliminates the dangers inherent in Islam's violent theology. Had Europeans been successful in doing so, or had they at least insisted that Muslims adopt Christian tolerance as a prerequisite for residency, we would be in much less trouble now.
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That would be better than nothing, but still, not good enough.
They'd probably be in much less trouble now if a policy of assimilation was strictly enforced. Tolerance is not enough, since all Tolerance is, is to put up with with something. Embrace Western values or you can't become a citizen of a western society, period. That's the way it should be. Also until a Muslim society gets rid of Sharia, and shows a tolerance for other religions, Western governments, really should severely limit any travel between their society and that one. We don't want large numbers of illegal immigrants entering the West from Islamic societies, violating our laws, intent on destroying us. I hope Europe and Canada don't have anything like America's your born here, you are a citizen rule, so they could just deport Jihadist illegals along with their large families.
Damien,
Do you see any Western leaders strongly advocating a reduction in immigration?
As the native workforce reduces in size, many countries are importing immigrants for "the jobs that others won't do."
Always On Watch,
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Do you see any Western leaders strongly advocating a reduction in immigration?
As the native workforce reduces in size, many countries are importing immigrants for "the jobs that others won't do."
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I'm fully aware, that's why we also have to increase the birth rate of native westerners.
RRA,
I don't have any children.
I understand that you also perceive a certain bias in the video.
Do those with children and grandchildren have a bigger stake in their culture's future?
Many of American families with the most children seem to care the least as to the cultural future of their offspring -- or don't take any real steps to promote and preserve Western culture. The poison of multiculturalism?
But what are the Moslem families in the West doing? In my own observation (personal and research), those Moslem families are promoting Islamic culture within their own families.
Damien,
that's why we also have to increase the birth rate of native westernersFor decades, universities have promoted zero population growth among the educated. Saving the world's resources and all that. At least, that's what I heard over and over again when I was in college (1968-1972).
And look where we are now!
But it's just fine and dandy with these same universities for Moslems to have large families, right?
You know, a lot of what we're saying in this thread is along the lines of "if only."
I guess that the big question for me is "What now?"
I'm sure that I don't have to state the following, but I will:
Is it already too late?
Is the clock running out faster than we can catch it?
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Gotta dash off for a while. Back later.
I do not agree with the basic premise of this video. Enormous numbers are not needed to sustain a culture. The capital of Rome had, as I recall, about a quarter million folks in it. Aristotle said the perfect size for a state is 5,000. I don't know the total population of Greece, but it did not number in the millions, let alone the hundreds of millions.
The danger to the culture is not in absolute, but in proportional numbers. That is, the minority tends to assimilate to the majority. And in a democracy, the majority can come close to tyrannizing over the minority. In other words, western civilization cannot survive as a minority in its own land. But, sans Islam, a nation of 50 million folks is totally feasible. Look at Korea, Japan and many other nations.
On the assimilation question, this is culturally contingent. The video mentioned our growing Latino presence. Latino refers to the language of the Romans, Latin. Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. The work ethic and identifying with our culture - despite the memories of the Mexican American War - is possible. With Muslims, the integration is more problematic.
One move we must do is shut the borders to Islamic immigration. We must do this on a culturist basis. Statistics like those in the video provide culturist reasons for it. Our culture will die if we're a minority in our own lands surrounded by our historical enemy. And, we must stop the funding of mosques by foreign groups (ie Saudi Arabia). These will send culturist messages through out the culture. Beyond this, you teach western civ perspectives in school and do not hassle people. Hopefully they'll be only verbally distinct from westerners.
Islam being a bigger beast, European demographics after stopping immigration might be important. In America, the idea that long-term Americans are going to get in a breeding race with Latinos is silly. We won't win. Reducing government incentives and supports from families might reduce the number and create a sense of responsibility. However, it may, as in Mexico, just lead to more poverty for the bigger families. Outcomes of laws depend on culturist factors.
One thing we do not want to do is start creating economic incentives for birthing. This will accelerate minority births. We could only do so if the benefits were reserved for "traditional Canadians or Americans" or whomever. This would be culturist, not racist. It would take cultural considerations into account.
But, as AOW noted no politicians even want to touch immigration, let alone the other policies I've mentioned. As minority voting blocs grow the odds diminish. The only hope for such a thing is for traditional majority persons (by far still the majority for elections) to drop multiculturalism, become culturist, and demand their politicians do too. But even getting people to use the words culturism and culturist to combat the word multiculturalism and the smear of all as racist is difficult.
Thanks for the discussion! Culturist John
www.culturism.us
Culturist John,
Your welcome.
Culturist John,
Those are some good ideas!
Culturist John,
You Wrote,
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One thing we do not want to do is start creating economic incentives for birthing. This will accelerate minority births. We could only do so if the benefits were reserved for "traditional Canadians or Americans" or whomever. This would be culturist, not racist. It would take cultural considerations into account.
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That would be a good idea, the problem is how do we go about doing it?
Off course you know, if we even tried it, The ACLU and Jessy Jackson would have a conniption fit!
Not that I care, other than it would make the law hard to enforce. Not to mention that people who weren't really traditional westerners might pretend to be, in order to get the benefits.
Damien,
Notice that that was only one of the several solutions I mentioned. And, you are right that folks might pretend to be western to claim the benefits. That would be a great thing. I want policies that work to make folks identify with the majority culture.
Also, yes, Jesse Jacksonites would have a fit. He would call it racist and discriminatory. The public might agree.
That is why we need to spread the culturist retort and increase culturist awareness before any of these ideas are feasible. I do not mean to be self-serving, but I think one easy and free way to spread awareness of the issues the video raises is to use the term culturism to challenge multiculturalism and culturist to refute charges of racism, whenever possible. Words spread quickly!
If these terms spread, politicians might be asked if they don't believe we have a traditional majority culture to protect. Schools might have to introduce the opposite of multiculturalism for consideration. Until we make people aware that cultural diversity is real and can have downsides, the public will simply write off all our inventive solutions as racist. Only after we have spread a culturist attitude will our ideas be considered.
Use the words culturist and culturism today!!! I think it is very necessary groundwork.
Culturist John,
You wrote,
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Notice that that was only one of the several solutions I mentioned. And, you are right that folks might pretend to be western to claim the benefits. That would be a great thing. I want policies that work to make folks identify with the majority culture.
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Thanks, and I was aware that, that was not your only Idea. I just liked that one in particular.
The problem through with them pretending to be westerners is that what if they are only pretending? They might not really accept Western values at all, and not really identify themselves as Westerners, at all but instead just pretend that they do. Fraud might be a serious problem. Don't forget, if you didn't already know, that Jihadist practice something called, Taqiyya.
Culturist John,
I was hoping that you'd stop by for this discussion.
The danger to the culture is not in absolute, but in proportional numbers. That is, the minority tends to assimilate to the majority....With Muslims, the integration is more problematic.Does the situation go beyond problematic?
Are we not seeing, however, that many Muslim immigrants are staunchly opposed to assimilation and that many Westerners are making special allowances for Islamic culture in the West?
You also mentioned voting blocs. Can voting blocs contrary to a nation's culture eventually change that culture?
Damien,
Yes, it would be thin evidence of affiliation with the West. The Founding Fathers' generation wrote immigration laws oaths as to require public statements of fealty. Taquiya could subvert that too. But, they knew it was important.
The best way to inculcate love of the western project is through schools. Having to memorize western history and give correct answers through 12 years of school would seem to be effective.
If understood, such school lessons also provide an inoculation against Wahhabi teaching. The best regard therein is preventing the proliferation of Saudi funded mosques.
Culturist reasoning notes the impact of cultural diversity. Not all assimilations are the same. Muslims and Mexicans have different issues. But, overall, Muslim's taquiya and culture makes their assimilation harder than most. And, it makes their assimilation more urgent.
AOW,
Damien hipped me to this conversation's existence.
I agree that the situation is more than problematic.
But we are at fault. If you give an inch to a cultural aggressor, they'll take a mile. Via our public policy logic of multiculturalism, celebrating diversity and calling all judgements racist "phobias" we lose the power to insist, as we have traditionally done, on assimilation.
There are moderate Muslims. These are the ones who do not know or follow their religion. It can happen. It does not happen when we allow no go zones, wink at female genital mutilation and do not enforce polygamy laws. It, especially does not happen when we allow the proliferation of radical Saudi funded mosques everywhere. It does not happen when colleges teach a sense of minority grievance and, supposedly, righteous anger.
Shaking these ideas could lead us back to the common sense of our traditionally culturist culture. We have traditionally screened immigrants for assimilability and then made them swear allegiance after a probationary period before they can become citizens. Multiculturalism rots this process.
We need culturist immigration laws. But if we do that, stop proliferating mosques and teach our values, I believe the threat by current muslims and their descendants ESPECIALLY IN THE USA can be minimized. Avoiding violence and the spread of hostility is possible.
But this is all premised on our rejecting multiculturalism and becoming culturist again.
Did you guys know that we arrested alleged agents of the Montenegrin government on charges of violating the neutrality of the US by recruiting men for belligerent nations? I just read that.
We have traditionally stood up for ourselves. It was not considered cool or free speech to recruit folks to destroy us during war time. Wilson went overboard, but he was not overruled by the courts.
He was upheld by Homes' "clear and present danger" rule of thumb. Fighting recruitment efforts was said to be one. We get more options and sensitivity when we remember our culturist past.
Culturist John,
I don't think I've never even hear of Montenegrin.
I agree with several of these comments. Definitely the best first step should be to stop Muslim immigration.
If there are no leaders willing to do that now, that can be changed.
It is also a good idea to strengthen the appreciation Westerners have for their own culture.
And third, we must never seriously entertain the thought that it is already too late. Many things in history HAVE been accomplished AFTER it was too late. Things can change. Breakthroughs can happen. But not if we throw in the towel. Pessimism tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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