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Tuesday, November 13, 2012

DARKNESS VISIBLE



Twenty States Now Have Petitions to Peacefully Secede From Union (Video)


Twenty states have now started petitions on the White House website to peacefully secede from the United States. In less than one week Texas and Louisiana are already close to having the 24,000 signatures needed before the Obama Administration will respond to their request.
CLICK ON THE TITLE TO SEE THE VIDEO AT GATEWAY PUNDIT.

A friend wrote the following to me. At this point, I have no definite ideas, but in general, I agree with what he has to say:

I would support a division of the country by red states/blue states, with some states being split down the middle in the process.  The result would only roughly satisfy the constitutionalist/progressive divide, and would leave plenty of Danzig-like pockets in both new states.  I think the process suggested by the guy from Texas is eminently reasonable: the split happens without a civil war, and there is free trade between the two new nations.  I would also like to see a period of 5 years or so of open resettlement, a population transfer like that between Greece and Turkey after WWI, so people can go to their natural country and not get stuck in the other guy's.  After that, there could still be fairly open travel, as there is now between the US and Canada.

The Red State could even be so mangnimous as to provide military protection for the Blue State, as the US has for Europe for decades.  This way the Red State could make the right foreign policy decisions, without interference from Blue State voters, and the Blue State could be freed up to pursue its European transformation.  The economies of both states would maybe thrive -- Blue as Europe's did up until the EU bubble burst, and Red because it would be full of traditional Americans succeeding in an atmosphere of freedom and hard work, as it was before the fall of the US and rise of Obama.

I definitely think there are plenty of ways to accomodate a peaceful division, and this is a conversation that should be moved to the mainstream.  Currently the only response to the contrary is mockery, but that won't do once enough people start taking concrete steps to make it happen.  It would benefit people on both sides, so I don't see why it should be fought.  We want to preserve our constitution and way of life, they want something new culturally, demographically, economically, and politically.

It wouldn't have to be limited to 2 states either, it could break into 6 chunks maybe.  You could have one large red state known as America, then there would be a set of protectorates: Los Angeles, New England, New York, Great Lakes, Miami.

One thing I am fairly confident about: a breakup or collapse is coming, and it can be either peaceful or violent, and it can either be internal or external.  The US as we knew it is history.  It would be possible for us to manage the collapse or breakup in order to see about the best possible result.  But, that's like me saying it's possible for us to reverse course and save the USA.  The election shows me that this is not realistic, even if technically possible.  And if we don't have the foresight to salvage the country, I'm sure we don't have the foresight to manage a satisfactory unwinding of the country either.  So it will not be pretty.  I don't think there's going to be anything left to salvage in the end.
 



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posted by Pastorius at permanent link#

15 Comments:

Blogger WC said...

Then there is this to consider.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America

Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:44:00 pm  
Blogger Nicoenarg said...

Texas and Louisiana have both reached the threshold for White House response.

Texas has upwards of 65000 signatures.

This is all well and good but I don't see it going anywhere. A lot of people are angry right now, fresh out of the elections, but if this many people put in their signatures for the petition that's asking for an election recount (citing Ohio counties where 108% of votes went to Obama), then you could have something that looks like justice.

Or at least a try to get justice.

The talk of secession and people from 20 states asking to be separate is, I'm afraid, akin to throwing in the towel.

No one will give a shit about it, and it is going to take focus away from, what may have been, a pretty daring election fraud pulled. That will now and forever remain under the radar while these people signing these petitions for secession will get to feel better that they "at least tried"!

Its a wasted effort.

Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:53:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

No, I don't think manifesting our justifiable anger is "a wasted effort."

It is counting the ranks of our side, Nico.

There needs to be a reckoning.

Part of the process of this cellular mytosis that is occurring will be the gradual articulation of what we stand for and what they stand for, how we are different, and how their ideas will be eliminated from our lives.

It needs to be done.

Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:12:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

WC,
Thanks for making me aware of that book.

Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:18:00 pm  
Blogger Epaminondas said...

Are any of these nations economically viable?

Texas would.
Louisiana would, maybe.

What about the federal bases there (THE ISSUE, btw which proximally set off the Civil War)?

I would suggest to these states they make their point, look for autonomy perhaps, and then do the work necessary to ensure victory of their view of reality by national vote.

AND GIVE UP THE FUCKING BABY TANTRUM

Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:18:00 pm  
Anonymous Longknife 21 said...

A few years ago some number-crunchers said an alliance between TX, LA, OK, & AR would be the 5th largest economy in the world. Seems exaggerated to me, but if you added MO, KA, NE, ND, SD, WY, MT, & ID, built the Keystone pipeline, were rid of the Federal bureaucracy, it would be an economic powerhouse.
A Constitutional Republic is now impossible in the current US with the Liberal control of "education" and the socialist controlled big cities.
Santa Claus politics for the parasite vote has destroyed America. Sad but true.
Perhaps we could rebuild it with a stronger Constitution, a willingness to work, desire for freedom & independence, and God's help.
All that old-fashioned stuff, so unPregressive.

Longknife 21, south Texas

Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:07:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Epa and Nico,

What are the steps before divorce?

One of them is saying, "Look, this is what I need. If I don't get it, honestly, I'm going to have to leave."

That's what this is.

It is not a baby tantrum.

At this point, I think your perspective is the childish one, because you keep going back to the tit expecting it's going to give you milk, when it dried up a long time ago.

Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:38:00 pm  
Blogger jeppo said...

Let all 50 states become independent nations and transform the US from a traditional nation-state to a supranational umbrella organization like the EU.

It's the ultimate way to permanently break the overweening power of Washington DC while still keeping a skeletal political superstructure there to manage things like a common currency and so forth.

I know it sounds ridiculous to propose copying the EU model for the US, but I'm not talking about importing their social or economic systems. The US should use the blueprint for the EU's governmental architecture to transform itself into a similar transnational entity.

The EU has already spawned two such imitators, the African Union and the South American Union. In the American case, rather than independent nations ceding some of their sovereignty to the EU, AU or SAU, it would be the US devolving most of its powers to the 50 states, which would then become fully independent nations.

California, Texas or any of the other 48 states would then have all the same sovereign powers, rights and responsibilities of Germany, France or any of the other 25 nations within the EU: a seat at the UN and their own citizenship and immigration policies for example. Some powers would be left with Washington, like, say, monetary policy, with the states (now independent nations) having the option to opt out of Washington's control, just like the EU nations have that option with Brussels.

I think these state-by-state secession movements are great news. But I also think that they will go nowhere fast unless the US is allowed to survive as an EU-like supranational organization to which the states/independent nations would then belong to. Of course the states/independent nations would always have the option to leave the US altogether if they so choose.

Disgruntled conservatives are sick and tired of an all-powerful and all-controlling Washington DC, especially now that O has been re-elected. But even if they'd like to win full sovereignty for their states, they're not willing to see the good old USA consigned to history's dustbin. The solution? Fifty independent nations within a supranational US based on the EU.

You heard it here first ;)

Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:09:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Maybe rather than you and I calling each other childish, I ought to simply ask you,

AT WHAT POINT WOULD YOU SAY, "I GUESS WE CAN NOT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?"

I mean, it seems obvious that we now live in a nation of 52% of people who believe the government is their sugar daddy.

What are we supposed to do about this situation, Epa? You think this is a matter of education?

And, do you think law will overcome the lawlessness of Obama and his cronies?

Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:41:00 pm  
Blogger Nicoenarg said...

Pastorius, I didn't say anything about a baby tantrum however I still think that its a wasted effort.

You brought up divorce but the people talking about secession are not talking about "steps toward a divorce", they are talking about walking out just because they didn't get their way the first time they tried.

Secondly, I think pursuing vote recount is more important because if there was a massive voter fraud then that's something that needs to be addressed.

Secession is going to invite a "heroic action" from "the Messiah Obama". Do any of the states, individually, have the military power to stand against the military might of the United States? I believe what Abraham Lincoln did was wrong, fighting a war to keep the Union. But the majority of Americans don't think it was wrong. And if Obama takes the same action, and he will, then all people who are asking for secession are going to do is make Obama another immortal president who will go down as a hero for generations to remember.

On the other hand, if people pursue a legitimate recount of the votes then you at least have a chance to prove that Obama is a criminal.

Independent secession is not an easy option. Obama is not going to let the Union break under his watch. You only have two option, either let the world remember Obama as Nixon or as Lincoln.

Now apparently individuals from all 50 states want to secede. What the hell are blue states up in arms about? This is so freakin fragmented, nothing here makes sense anymore.

I get the result of the elections wasn't very desirable. More than that, it was unbelievable. I think people should fight the battles that can be won.

Conservatives made huge mistakes even during the election fighting too many battles that couldn't be won. Suddenly, it wasn't just about fiscal responsibility, you know the platform the Tea Party won on, it was about banning abortion, or weed or sex or rape or whatever else these nuts could think of.

While I think there is huge amounts of evidence that points to a possibility of voter fraud (e.g. one of the districts in Ohio where over 100,000 votes went squarely to Obama), I think pursuing secession is only going to make sure that conservatives not only won't get secession but will also be denied a chance at possible justice they could have gotten via voter recount.

Remember what happened with the Civil War? Most everyone remembers that the South wanted to be racist and the North was like "Nuh uh! We're going to fight for our black brethren!! God bless Abraham Lincoln!" It doesn't matter that that's not what happened. What matters is that that's how the world remembers that conflict.

This Civil War? "The South wanted to be racist and sexist but the North was like 'Nuh uh! We're going to fight for our brown brethren and our sisters!! God bless Obama!"

Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:54:00 pm  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Nico,
Epa used the words "baby tantrum".

Pursuing a recount is a decent idea.

However, I believe there are real ballots out there that will tell us that Obama won.

Voter fraud is, for the most part, people voting multiple times, and people voting in the name of dead people.

There is no way to correct that. The vote is anonymous. We do not keep records on who is voting. You may not have known that.

You ask: Secession is going to invite a "heroic action" from "the Messiah Obama". Do any of the states, individually, have the military power to stand against the military might of the United States? I


I respond: Of course not. But the point is to make our point. I ask again, what recourse do we have? We can not expect the law to take care of the problem. It's pretty clear Obama can do whatever the hell he wants to do at this point.

I guess I need to constantly repeat the problems.

1) Dream Act enacted by Executive fiat

2) Holder under contempt of Congress, it means nothing

3) President shutting down whole industries not through legislation but through EPA

4) Hilary and Petreus are successfully avoiding having to testify on Benghazi

There is much mush more. That is just the recent stuff.

it is accelerating lately.

Who is going to stop Obama and by what means?

The people voted the guy in. They want this. The people are hooked on the government tit. Do you have a way to get them off it? I don't.


I don't really agree with you on your Civil War history, Nico. But, I don't think that's the point.

Wednesday, November 14, 2012 3:53:00 pm  
Blogger Nicoenarg said...

Pasto,

I see your points. I just think it should be done differently. I think a proper process should be followed, vote recount and if nothing comes of it then sure, secession. Anyway we seem to disagree on that and that's fine.

One thing I do agree on, I don't have any way of getting idiots off the government's tit but what's the guarantee that the states that secede won't have to deal with that. It is a fact, after all, that the US turned into a welfare state having not created as one to begin with. People change. The grass is usually greener on the other side. What's to say that people won't want their government to be like the government ruling over Blue states?

That's all conjecture on my part of course. You have valid points; I just have opinions.

(Oh and no I didn't know that the votes were anonymous.)

We can talk about Civil War some other time ;-) I just don't know what you don't agree with, I didn't really share my point of view? :-/

Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:12:00 pm  
Blogger Nicoenarg said...

By the way, I do have ONE very long term solution.

Conservative take over of the education system. That's where your socialists are bred. Cut them down in their prime and you've saved the country.

Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:23:00 pm  
Anonymous Longknife 21 said...

The point is: The Constitution is a contract between the People, the States, and the Federal gont that CREATED the Federal govt and gave it limited enumerated powers.
The Obama Administration has consistently and constantly violated the terms of the contract and there is no recourse in the Courts anymore.
When one party refuses to honor a contract and there is no legal way to enforce it the contract becomes null & void.
These states are really secedeing (yet), only stating a possible position. One that may be unavoidable in the coming collapse in the Dem controlled cities.

Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:05:00 am  
Blogger Pastorius said...

Longknife,
That's a good point.

I will actually have to read the petitions.

My understanding is they are not demands for secession, but requests for the right to secede, or statements of possible secession.

Secession at this point is untenable, and there is not the will for it.

However, if we return to the divorce analogy, we are sleeping in separate bedrooms, and playing it nice for the kids at this point.

Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:10:00 am  

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