President Trump: A better future is for you if you drive out the terrorists and drive out the extremists. Drive them out. Drive them out of your praises of worship. Drive them out of your communities. Drive them out of your holy land. And drive them out of this earth.
A particularly interesting segment comes at the 22:00 minute mark.
COMMENT FROM "KID":
COMMENT FROM "KID":
What Trump did was important.
Offering Our help with Their radical problem.
Defining the problem.
Calling them to either participate in defeating it or outing themselves as supporting it.
Great first step.
Now the islamic states must put up or shut up.
There was so much nuanced threat in this speech I'm still giddy.
This speech will go down in history along side anything from Churchill, FDR, you name it.
Unreal. Totally unexpected.
COMMENT FROM ALWAYS ON WATCH:
I just finished listening to the entire speech.
It was as daring a speech that an American President could give on Arabian soil to an assembly of Arab nations.
As Kid mentioned, there was much nuanced threat. That part about condemned souls, for example:
Religious leaders must make this absolutely clear: Barbarism will deliver you no glory – piety to evil will bring you no dignity. If you choose the path of terror, your life will be empty, your life will be brief, and YOUR SOUL WILL BE CONDEMNED.
A deliberate salvo directed the Wahhabist imams, many of them from Saudi.
He also called out Hamas.
I noted at one point that he said "Islamic extremism." I think that the original script said "Islamist extremism." An accident on Trump's part?
26 comments:
Drive them out?
Aren't they already driving them out to the West.
What? was he promoting the spread of radical Islam?
Just kill them in place please.
If this speech doesn't insult the tender sensitivities of the current keepers of Islam's holiest places, I don't know what will.
Terror is part and parcel of Islamic doctrine - without it, Islam dies.
I sure hope Trump isn't buying into the existence of a peaceful version of Islam.
Anonymous,
I sure hope Trump isn't buying into the existence of a peaceful version of Islam.
I'm not sure what he believes now. He's surrounded by many who insist that Islam is a religion of peace. **sigh**
I odn't know what Trump believes about islam. But this was a necessary step one. This speech for all intents put them all on notice. Meaning if they don't visibly fight terrorism physically, financially, resourcefully, then they have outed themselves as part of the problem. I have to think that's what they were all thinking.
Kid,
I hope you're right, my friend.
But I don't trust the Saudis.
After reading the transcript .... yep, pretty good speech.
He called out basically all the Shiite factions.
I wish he would have laid more blame on the Sunni clergy..... mentioned a few by name.
.... and explained to them better what the ramification would eventual be if they failed to rein in their fellow adherents.
Calling out the Shiites? Ha . . .stroking egos, more like it. Obama stroked the Shiite ego with American blood and treasure. Trump with threats of allying with the Sunni factions. Ugh.
I can't say I have any insight into Trumps thinking, but from this point of view - fools choice siding with the House of Saud or any Islamic faction. Islam is war with all considered as 'others' - even their own. Given their endless interpretations of scripture with it's built in dualism feeding every option to oppose at any cost - there will only be temporary winners subject to any and all subsequent takers with alternate interpretations.
Islam delende est.
Know Islam, No Peace.
Know Peace. No Islam.
I agree. Here's what Trump did, in part:
He went to Saudi Arabia and criticized Iran and their proxy Hizballah.
If he went to Saudi Arabia and criticized Wahabbism, Al Qaeda, and other Sunni terrorist organizations, that would be another thing.
Truth is, he did do that implicitly. But not explicitly.
The only faction he criticized explicitly was Shia. Well, that and ISIS. But ISIS is the big Islamic bogeyman. Everyone will say they hate ISIS, just like everyone will say they hate Hitler. Big deal. Now let's see you criticize Sharia law. That ain't gonna happen, is it?
And yet, Sharia is the whole fucking issue. Because Sharia stipulates that it be spread by threat of death.
One good thing is Trump did make clear that Saudi's recent moves on Women's Rights are an example of the kinds of things that need to happen. I have to admit, I have been shocked to see Saudi move on that. That is, indeed, good news.
AOW, I don't think anyone who knows islam expects much of a change.
I do think (now) that what Trump did was important.
Offering Our help with Their radical problem.
Defining the problem.
Calling them to either participate in defeating it or outing themselves as supporting it.
Great first step.
Now the islamic states must put up or shut up.
There was so much nuanced threat in this speech I'm still giddy. This speech will go down in history along side anything from Churchill, FDR, you name it.
Unreal. Totally unexpected.
I just finished listening to the entire speech.
It was as daring a speech that an American President could give on Arabian soil to an assembly of Arab nations.
As Kid mentioned, there was much nuanced threat. That part about condemned souls, for example:
Religious leaders must make this absolutely clear: Barbarism will deliver you no glory – piety to evil will bring you no dignity. If you choose the path of terror, your life will be empty, your life will be brief, and YOUR SOUL WILL BE CONDEMNED.
A deliberate salvo directed the Wahhabist imams, many of them from Saudi.
He also called out Hamas.
I noted at one point that he said "Islamic extremism." I think that the original script said "Islamist extremism." An accident on Trump's part?
Why Saudi might now have a real reason to reform:
...For the first time in decades the Saudi monarchy can no longer rely on the revenues from oil to maintain its position as the leading Arab state and to buy off any aspirations that the Saudi population might have to play a real role in politics.
That's because the days of $100-a-barrel oil are long gone and are unlikely to return anytime soon. And it is this reality that made President Trump's trip to Riyadh and his speech on Sunday so important to the Saudi monarchy.
[...]
When oil wealth seemed an endless spigot of gold, the absolute Saudi monarchy created, somewhat paradoxically, a quasi-socialist state: an astonishing 90% of Saudis work for the government and have long enjoyed subsidies for water, electricity and gas. Health care and education are free.
But, in late 2015, the IMF warned that, given falling oil prices, the Saudi government could run out of financial reserves in five years if it kept up its present rate of spending.
With oil prices holding steady at around $50 a barrel, the Saudi government is now cutting government salaries and reducing subsidies. Trump's visit -- and deals -- therefore create a critical opportunity in the private sector for Saudis who can no longer exclusively depend on the government.
King Salman -- who became King in 2015 and for almost five decades was the governor of Riyadh, overseeing its explosive growth from a city of a few hundred thousand in the mid-1960s to the massive city it is today -- has empowered his 31-year-old son, the Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, to also play a role in addressing Saudi's immediate demands. He is charged with modernizing Saudi society slowly and diversifying the Saudi economy quickly.
The Saudi government calls it "Vision 2030."...
It was a strong and daring speech for a new American President. Most likely, stronger sentiments were delivered behind closed doors.
I note Melania praised the first "women's only...." business endeavor on her Twitter feed. What that really means, is that women are NOT ALLOWED to share office space with men. This does NOT signal "empowerment". It signals containment and isolation from the world of adult men. I detest pandering. It is unseemly.
I do not believe for one second that Saudi Arabia has embraced gender equality for women. The subservience of women toward men is deeply entrenched in this cultural milieu.
I will never consider Saudi Arabia anything except a massive criminal dynasty that just so happens to own a state. And I will never forget the woman who I saw plummet to her death from one of the towers on 9/11. These cannot be counted as friends. The trade deal is just that: a trade deal that benefits our defense industry. $$$ cannot bring back any life lost by Saudi-financed terror operations across the globe.
Trump just danced with the devil. I think he knows it.
Maybe the Islamic concept of the will of Allah also plays in here.
Because Saudi had oil, the Saudis believed that Allah had especially blessed their land, so they consistently supported Wahhabism. It seemed to them that Allah blessed Wahhabism.
But now that the oil is not their ticket to prosperity, the Saudis could be thinking, "Allah's will has changed, and Allah is telling us to go in a different direction -- a direction other than Wahhabism."
That will of Allah thing is a big deal to them -- much more so than the will of God in Christianity.
GREAT COMMENTS FROM AOW AND KID.
I added them to the front page.
TLEP,
I agree with your assessment of Saudi with regard to Women's Rights and it being a "criminal dynasty".
Donke Shoen Pastorius
Actually Danke Shoen :)
Heh. All this time I thought it was Donkey Schlong.
;-)
Taquiyya - muslims may lie -- have known this for years---
found a great - informational video--that will make it clear to newbies-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F4wBeshTsw
C-CS
Pasto,
Thank you!
When President Trump speaks of barbarity he is speaking to barbarians with billions. A couple of years ago House of Sod lopped off the heads of security guards because of the crowd-related deaths of pilgrims heading to Hajj. I watched the video. Damn big sword. A damning shame.
It would be like us beheading our own police officers. Really? Tell me these guys are normal.
I'm disappointed. After downgrading the threat from Islam to "radical Islam" it is now "extremists" again. There is no reason to go to Saudi Arabia if one wants to criticism Islam in any of its guises. Indeed, going to Saudi Arabia sends the wrong message.
I can't see how we can continue business as usual with a nation the funds madrassas around the world that teaches their followers to fly planes into our tallest buildings. Have we no pride? Are we that pathetic?
Jason,
I can't say that I'm not disappointed about the things you mentioned.
But what's happening could be worse. So far, anyway. I may say differently a year from now.
AOW, I'd welcome a pleasant surprise.
In any case, we have to set him straight. No kid gloves.
Jason,
I've read about McMaster's possible influence on Trump's understanding of Islam.
Isn't McMaster a believer in the idea that the real Islam has been hijacked by extremists? A comforting idea, but false.
No doubt Trump is getting conflicting information. Early on he consulted Gaffney, a superb choice. Even though Frank didn't make it into his staff, he has Gorka and Stephen Miller. That gave me hope.
They have one ear. That establishment has the other. We'll see who wins.
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