I ran the business a few years while I studied and earned a few million so I could finance a inntektsløs politically active life. I now use these funds to be able to work full time to further develop / promote the Vienna Academy (Vienna school of thought) that Fjordman, Bat Yeor, Spencer + many others have already contributed so much till. The last three years I worked full time with a cultural conservative works that will help to further develop / promote these political doctrines further.It seems to me there are not a lot of anti-Jihad "works" with whom he could have been working. I'm guessing people in the movement know who this guy is.
If you know the guy, it might be a good idea to admit it, because if he is as intimately involved as this comment would seem to indicate, then it is going to come to light.
75 comments:
well, it's over. Just drop dead now that every anti-jihadist is branded a terrorist and everything muslims do will be given free pass after this
christian conservative terrorist attack. Fuck Europe and fuck everything, this is the final nail in the coffin for european resistance, you'll be persecuted and jailed on suspicion of terrorist activities. muslims have won, islam won, Europe and Christianity are officialy dead.
from the site you linked:
"These are Google translations of comments Anders Behring Breivik made on the website document.no.
There is very little that he said that I would disagree with. It is clear that he is a Counterjihadist and visits the same sites that most of us do, Gates of Vienna, Jihadwatch, Atlas Shrugs, etc. He is intelligent, thoughtful and well-read. He cites Fjordman's "Defeating Eurabia" many times."
Though they will try to bring the hamer down on us all, the people mentioned here are about to be crucified.
Yet what is being ignored by the media is the contradiction that he did not attack muslims but socialist youths.
Despite his anti-Islam anti-multiculti beliefs THERE IS NO TIE-IN WITH THIS ATTACK AND THE JIHAD OR COUNTER-JIHAD. ISLAM SEEMS TO HAVE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT EITHER WAY.
At least none that we've been shown.
The media is diverting attention from the attack and what may have motivated them to instead attack the right.
Which, of course, is to be expected.
I cannot believe one man did all this on his own. Whoever benefits is a strong indication of who was involved, and in this case the left/Islamic alliance benefits. I think this guy was discontented, tried the right in the beginning, then seeing they weren't disposed to violence took matters into his own hands.
For my part, I'm not worried about any of this bullshit coming down on me, cuz
1) I know I'm right
2) I know what I have and have not done
3) I know who I am before God
The counter-Jihad, as a movement, chose to make decisions I did not agree with. I separated myself VERY PUBLICLY from those decisions.
Those decisions are exactly what would bring down the counter-Jihad, if indeed this particular event were to be a "final nail in the coffin".
IBA is not part of that bullshit.
They could try to tar me with it. I don't think they would, cuz IBA is small potatoes. But, anyway, I recall reading something that said, "Consider it honor when you are persecuted in my name."
Like I said, I know who I do this for. I have food these idiots do not know about.
Fuck 'em, fuck 'em in the ass.
were these comments really his, or are they phony?
how would we know?
it may be that a follower of counter-jihad did this hideous attack, but none of these website you have cited advocate vigilante violence against anyone.
not muslims and not non-muslims.
none.
they are political think tanks who argue in favor of getting our governments to do more.
they might advocate MILITARY violence/kinetics and the harshest possible legal remedies (military tribunals. the death penalty, gitmo, etc.) but are not advocates of vigilantism.
SO... JUST BECAUSE ONE TWISTED EVIL PERSON AGREES WITH THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT ISLAMIZATION, IT DOESN'T AND CANT' REFLECT ON THEM.
PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TIE ANTI-JIHADISTS TO THIS HORRIFIC ACT ARE SLANDERING SCUM.
It depends on whether you believe what the guy wrote here or not, RP.
If you believe it, then he is very likely rather intimate with the counter-Jihad movement in Europe. This is a wealthy man who is committed to using his wealth, knowledge, and time, to further the goals of the counter-Jihad.
If that is the case, then he may very well be someone everyone else knows.
That's my point.
I really should not have to repeat the point.
Huffing and puffing will not make this go away if it is an issue.
And neither will ignoring it, IF IT IS AN ISSUE.
If people in the counter-Jihad know who this guy is, they ought to cop to it.
That is the point of my post.
It is not an invalid point.
Deal with my point, next time.
Don't huff and puff at me.
still waiting for the whole picture-
remember- the 'cover-up- of the Hasan-Ft Hood 'incident'-
and the McVeigh-OK bombing-
Christians do not go around murdering innocents- the un- born or the born!!!
Carol-CS
I remember Mc Veigh photographed w/ muslim 'soldiers' -New American magazine-wayyyyyy back..and shrotly after the OK bombing...
you may be interested in this account that I just found...
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/04/confession_of_the_oklahoma_cit.html
I'm still waiting-may be a loooong time for the truth to come out to the general public...
C-CS
Why would any of us know this guy? I write at Jihad Watch daily or so and have for years, and I don't know the guy. He doesn't seem to show up there at all. If Spencer doesn't know him, why would anyone else? He seems to have been interested in local affairs to the exclusion of the rest of the world.
I now use these funds to be able to work full time to further develop / promote the Vienna Academy...
That doesn't portend well, IMO.
I cannot imagine that some of the "big players" in the "counter-jihad movement," particularly in Europe, don't know this guy -- at the least, they've likely met him.
Isn't he supposed to make some kind of statement/explanation today or tomorrow? When he does, we should post it -- and parse it.
MR,
Despite his anti-Islam anti-multiculti beliefs THERE IS NO TIE-IN WITH THIS ATTACK AND THE JIHAD OR COUNTER-JIHAD. ISLAM SEEMS TO HAVE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT EITHER WAY.
Thus far, I haven't heard a word about Islam in any mainstream news coverage.
Comprehensive article in Mail Online. Apparently, he wanted to ignite a "conservative revolution."
The Marxist Left is calling for a "response" now since the vast majority of the victims were attending a "Labour Youth Camp". I guess when you lie down with snakes for long enough, YOU begin to look like a snake. So we can expect a strong anti-conservative, anti-right wing reaction coming over from Europe in the near term. Expect to hear many MANY more calls for U.N. One World government... because as we all know, it's the Right-wing, and not the Islamicists, who are the problem...
Pasto, check out this article about Anders Breivik. The astonishing thing about him, at least judging by his writings, is his apparent moderation.
He is not a Nazi, he's pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. He's not a white supremacist, he opposes racism. He's not a Christian fundamentalist, he's pro-gay.
He opposes the BNP and Front National because of their ethnocentrism. He's not even opposed to Islam per se, only Islamism. He's not a member of any extremist political group, but the thoroughly mainstream and centre-right Norwegian Progress Party.
He supports most of the same anti-jihadist blogs as many of us, Gates of Vienna, Jihad Watch, Brussels Journal, Religion of Peace, Atlas Shrugs, New English Review, pre-2008 LGF. Other writers he likes include Fjordman, Bruce Bawer, Daniel Pipes, Bat Ye'or.
He supports non-racial politicians and groups like Geert Wilders, SIOE, EDL. He admires Jesus and Edmund Burke. Authors he reads include Machiavelli, Shakespeare, Orwell, Kafka, Homer, Dante, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, Tolstoy, Plato.
He's a fan of Winston Churchill and Norwegian anti-fascist hero Max Manus.
In short, he shares the same political views and intellectual tastes as tens of millions of ordinary people, certainly almost everyone who reads this website. Which makes his well-planned and utterly evil attacks all the more inexplicable.
I found this comment about Breivik's "manifesto" of some 1500 pages:
Of interest to Spencer is: a pdf "find" search gives no indication that Spencer was taken as any kind of mentor or role model in the killer's war on "multi-culturalism." The 55 references are mostly of Spencer quoting from islamic doctrine. There is only 1 insignificant reference to Pam Geller. CHARLES JOHNSON is mentioned 13 times. The killer did something I never did: record the narrative of the reversion of his real mentor to the dark-side in "2007." There is a long diatribe against CJ. Yet absolutely nothing personal about Jihad Watch, other than use of materials. Or, better: misuse.
And this "analysis":
...Breivik must have almost lived at LGF when he developed the idea to restart the "crusades." He clearly felt betrayed when CHARLES JOHNSON became what he saw as a "marxist multi-culturalist."
page 386
Is the manifesto a fake? I have no idea.
Jeppo,
By way of clarification about my post yesterday, it does indeed appear that Breivik's views were not those of a neo-Nazi (as was first reported).
As more details emerge, we will have to sift through them. "What is truth?"
FJ,
I think that your assessment is correct.
Dag,
I do wonder if he had several online identities/names?
Can we really say that he didn't show up at various anti-jihad sites? I don't think so.
This is one convoluted mess.
Two wrongs never make a right, that is the problem. The wrong of the radical Islamists cannot be counted by another wrong.
As long as you do not distance (or support) those that attribute all of Islam with radical Islamists such as Spencer, Wilders etc and that you are linked with groups like the EDL and so on, you are in fact by defacto linked to Breivik.
It is time for you guys to make a decision.
If you are anti-Immigration that is fine, that is political. If you condemn radical Islamists and immigrants that push anti-integration and support foreign politics then I will stand up and join you. If you demand protection of the culture and hard-earned standards we have built in our nations, I will call for it in the streets (I have in fact).
Having said that, if you cannot be morally, socially and politically faultless and if you allow fringe, hate and bigotry to join your cause - you are part of the "wrong" and thus it will neither work nor will it be acceptable.
Here is a video copy of the manifesto?
Thersites,
Is this video confirmed as "the real deal"?
Damien,
I suggest that you watch the video.
From what I've seen so far (paused for a few minutes to type in this comment), the video isn't so much counter-jihad material.
I don't frequent GoV, but found this comment over there:
The terrorist has released a 1500-page manifesto in which he explains his political views and motives.
Most of the text in the manifesto have been taken directly from Fjordman, Gates of Vienna, Brusselsjournal etc etc
Think about that for a moment. A man has just murdered 100 children. And this man, the greatest mass murderer in Scandinavian history, responsible for the most violent act in the Nordic countries since the end of Word War 2 is a 100% ideological match with you people.
Am I saying that you are in anyway responsible for his actions? No, of course you are not.
But still I don't think I need to explain why this will have enormous consequences for you and the entire so called "counterjihad" movement.
7/24/2011 5:53 AM
**sigh**
Hi Guys .
This quote from the WashingtonPost caught my attention"I sold my company a few years back which allowed me to focus full time on the current compendium I'm writing; ‘September 11th, 2083.’ I’ve lived quite ascetic since then.”
A few years back means as far as i determinated two years ago, how did he order the 6 tons of explosives (Fertiliser)?
Will,
I think that he had a farm and ordered much fertilizer without tipping off the national security people.
What is this date "2083" all about? Any significance there?
Here are the vital parts of a (badly) translated version of an article that just appeared at Spiegel, titled "The Murderer and the Hate Bloggers":
"Dozens chapter of his pamphlet appeared in recent years, blogs such as Gates of Vienna (GoV - "Gates of Vienna") and The Brussels Journal, which is among his most cited sources. Breivik himself called the ideology that he must follow, as the "Vienna school of thought" - a direct reference to the GoV blog."
"On Saturday, led the, above all, his ideological proximity to perhaps the biggest star of this scene, bizarre case of a dispute: This is also right blog Little Green Footballs (in the trendy jargon only LGF) brought the rumor, Anders Breivik is none other than the scene well known blogger Fjordman.
The controversy is still raging. Meanwhile, Fjordman, known for radical, long essays elegantly formulated against Muslims, liberals and "Multi-Kultis", has repeatedly spoken out. Since then, the accusation is no longer in the room, he himself was the mass murderer of Norway, but "only", that he was an arsonist - Breivik inspiration."
Fjordman: the intellectual cues
"Against this charge, there is almost no argument, it has provided Breivik. Already in 2009, tried Breivik, whose e-mail address at that time was year2083@gmail.com, Fjordman to speak directly, and to interest him in his then said to have been 1,100 pages Hasspamphlet strong. He was reportedly not interested in Breivik, also because of the "differed in nothing from all the other" and nothing of himself admitted that he, Fjordman had not even heard at a greater radicalism "in the pub."
Since the upper right blogger has missed something. Fjordman, Breivik most cited source would ever again find themselves with security in the concoction - in the sense of the word: He is - perhaps without his consent - the most important co-author of the pamphlet.
Because that is not a monograph Breivik, not the political-literary effusions of a madman who planned apparently for years a devastating bomb attack, but a kind of collage: "2083" consists largely of articles and essays, Breivik from various "patriotic" "national" has downloaded "conservative" blogs. Fjordman is actually the author of several hundred pages of this miscellany - a total of 38 chapters and subchapters are of him. They fit seamlessly into this "work" that the Europeans are calling for a bloody anti-Jihad, to the point of martyrdom."
Re Will,
6 tons of fertilizer cost about $3000 in my parts.
Hey all, you know there are a lot of posters on anti-jihad sites who espouse violence as a solution. The left makes the leap from that to condemning the movement because they were already opposed to the movement. They are just making the best use of an opportunity. The movement is still valid, but violence is not the solution, knowledge is. We will always distance ourselves from those who espouse violence as the solution.
The reason why I, as a Christian, am opposed to violence as the solution is that I believe at the right time God will step in and whoop ass on our behalf at the second coming. If I don’t wait for his timing, I will just mess things up.
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath. Romans 12:19
If this man did not follow this, then he wasn’t following Christ. The word “Christian” is used so loosely these days that Norway considers all citizens Christian at birth, and Muslims consider everyone in the United States Christian.
This idiot is a murderer who has not been HERE, has not COMMENTED HERE, and my money say is NOT pro Israel OR pro jewish, but if he is consistent in his thought is instead, PRO APARTHEID and from that standpoint supports Israel as a successful apartheid state (which would be the view of VILE CREATURES).
I am NOT afraid to have any institution look at IBA OR me, and if they violate the constitution by doing so I have NO PROBLEM sounding off about it.
I am completely and SERENELY confident that this guy DOES NOT share our views here at IBA, is ARYAN NATION compared to most of us and if he had commented here would have got 'the full treatment'.
If anything this should be a MAJOR LESSON to anyone politically active that in taking on ANY ALLIES to defeat evil on the other side, lies the seed of death and the loss of righteousness REQUIRED of those who fight for the good which is COMPULSORY to be victorious.
You cannot hold hands with Fulgencio Batista, in order to beat communism. You cannot say that the BNP or EDL, or VB or ANY SUCH ALLY is acceptable because they are allies against Sharia.
Here at IBA I feel MOST STRONGLY we have withstood strong criticism from those who felt we were too critical of so called allies.
We were correct.
Nevermind.
This guy is Baruch Goldstein.
But as Goldstein was a warning to those TRULY pro israel, so this mass murdering racist fuckwad is a warning to GOOD PEOPLE like Bat Yeor and Robert Spenser.
No one said this would be easy, short or clean.
Epa,
I don't know that he has never commented here. "Conservatism" may have commented here. I would have no way of going through 25,000 posts and several hundred thousand comments, to determine that he had or had not commented.
Anyway, that was not the point of this post.
Always on Watch nailed it when she said (in this comments section) -
Always On Watch said...
I now use these funds to be able to work full time to further develop / promote the Vienna Academy...
That doesn't portend well, IMO.
I cannot imagine that some of the "big players" in the "counter-jihad movement," particularly in Europe, don't know this guy -- at the least, they've likely met him.
Isn't he supposed to make some kind of statement/explanation today or tomorrow? When he does, we should post it -- and parse it.
The point of this post is, it seems this guy may have had real world, close-up connection to some of the people in the counter-Jihad movement.
If this is true, it will come to light. So, I would advise that anyone who knew him, come out and say it. Because, if you don't, it will come back to bite you in the ass.
I recall "Conservative European." I can't be sure of the name, but I think he was here. That moniker would easily cover a few million people.
That anyone would have been in direct contact with Breivik here is pretty unlikely. And if so, he seems so reasonable in print, up to a few days ago, who would expect this killing spree?
EPA said " is a warning to GOOD PEOPLE like Bat Yeor and Robert Spenser".
I disagree, it is people like Yeor and Spencer who are just as bad as the others you list.
Yeor and Spencer attack Islam as a faith in its' totality and thus is bigoted. Spencer goes further by actually supporting radical Islamists as a way to prove his point, basically arguing to anyone that if any Muslim does not support the jihadist/salafis/wahhabist point of view they are not real or good Muslims.
It is time people to get your policy and theories clear and distance yourselves from those who deviate instead of tolerating the untolerable and thus (and correctly) being linked with them.
At present you are tarnished, Fjordman is implicated as a provocator and clearly follows the same line as Spencer.
For the record, this "Damien" is different than our other friend Damien, who comments here all the time.
In fact, message to you, the new Damien. I don't know why you are commenting here. You are free to continue commenting here. But, you need to come up with a new name. I suggest you call yourself, "The Evil Damien". I think that would demonstrate that you have the requisite sense of humor for this blog.
I had put it down to a severe head injury suffered in the course of a terrible car crash, the result being the emergence after a long period in a coma of an evil Damien. Now I see the light coming down upon me like a -- OH NO! A fully loaded semi-trailer truck in the wrong lane....
It's-- EVIL DAMIEN.
1. It is already in my google account thus it automatically appears, but I will ensure signing my name on the bottom to distinguish you from the other.
2. When childish personal attacks appear by commenters on blogs rather than attempting to actually discuss/debate/respond/rebuke a comment, it most commonly means that they either are a) actualy children or b) cannot actually respond credibly. I will give both of you the credit.
3. My point remains clear enough and I have yet to see someone attempt to point out otherwise other than AOW. I will repeat it yet again. As long as you are avoiding distancing yourself from the ugly bigotry that some within the self-proclaimed anti-jihad movement then you are tainted and simply put "a part of it". That bigotry is an obvious part that feeds and pushes those that go over the edge resulting in what has happend in Norway.
D Charles
Gibraltar
You don't get a respectful treatment of your writings because you don't write well and you aren't particularly intelligent. That is not a personal attack on you, it's a reasoned response based on your writings. Of course you'll take it personally. You don't show that you have the intellectual skills to do otherwise. To cry and moan that I don't take you seriously is, well, about what I come to expect from you.
Damien II - sorry I KNOW Bat Yeor.
And you are incorrect.
PERIOD
Spenser has ALWAYS laid down the line that unless MUSLIMS come to a reformation accepting the idea the Quran is the immuatble word of perfect being is a dead end.
That is no more attacking Islam than Luther attacked Christianity.
Dogma is not god. Especially when the Quran is a frankly UNARGUABLY racist document as detailed by it's own experts such as the recently deceased head of Al Azhar.
Your analysis is factually incorrect.
So sorry
BTW Damien II, THIS GROUP, which is all WE are responsible for, has BLASTED EDL without hesitation.
Dag, you can try every excuse in the book but simply put this is the only location of many that "somehow" what I write is not understood.
IE get real and grow up and stop avoiding the topic.
D Charles
Gibraltar
Stop posting cliches and trickle-down high school platitudes. I want intelligent, original ideas from an intellectual. If you write seriously after thinking clearly, then you find me a grateful and happy correspondent.
Evil Damien the Gibraltar of Self-Taught Information comes to this blog assuming we are exactly the same as all other counter-Jihad blogs.
He knows nothing of the history.
The history would astound you, Damien the Evil.
You really should read through the history here, especially that which took place in Sept 2007 through about March of 2008.
You would be surprised at who used to post here and why they no longer post here.
If you want me to give you a quick rundown of the history, I will, provided that you assume a more respectful tone with me, instead of just knee-jerk assuming I am a bigot/racist.
I did and you are avoiding, just more excuses.
Comment: The self-proclaimed anti-jihad blog movement suffers a severe case of bigotry.
Example: There many (including some on this blog) who attack the entire faith of Islam rather than the radical Islamists whom are a minority and not representative of of of Islam. Some bloggers, like Robert Spencer have even chosen to support radical Islamists, Salafism and Wahhabism by declaring that those Muslims who do not support them are "not real Muslims".
Support: World class criminal psychologists such as Dr David Holmes and Ian Stephen (I know the latter personally through my own work) have pointed out that the uncontrolled far-right bloggosphere "feeds and pushes" an "unrealistic and contextually false" set of images about Islam and the political Left and "that it must take some responsibility" for the event in Norway. (CNN/BBC interviews last night and today respectively.
Response: Not holding my breath and awaiting another excuse.
Good grief, you just quoted two "experts' who added not one intelligent comment between them, and you now sit smug and demand a reasoned response. You, sir, are a buffoon.
Dag, I am as anti-jihad as you are but I avoid three things.
1. Basing my views on anything other than academic facts.
2. Basing my views on something else that is "wrong" (ie bigotry, racism, hate, political expediency, etc.
3. Based on contextual abuse, meaning partial truths whilst ignoring or avoiding the full picture.
I am in my early 60s, near retirement, a barrister, an active member of the British Conservative Party and a faithful Catholic. My views are clear, I will point my finger at any radical be it violent Islamists or far-right haters, communists or fascists. I support tighter immigration, the deportation of anti-integrationists and the banning of haters like Wilders from entering the UK. I support the right of Israel but deplore the Settler Movement.
Now you know me.
D Charles QC
Barrister
Gibraltar
Dag, you have proven my point to no-end simply put your just here to be the local bufoon.
Did you watch them? No you did not. Do you know them or their credentials? No you do not.
Do you know what you are talking about? The logical conclussion, no you do not.
When YOU turn up with a bit of logic, try again....
Pastorius, I have no idea of your history, obviously I was not there. I made and continue to make my comments based on either what I see, what is written by commenters here and by the associations you have had.
Example, EPA and I will beg to differ, as much as Yeor may be a nice person or not but she has published a condemnation of an entire faith based on her sad experiences and to sell books, she does not reflect the Muslim world but only a segement of it - that is a failure and thus bigoted. That is not only my opinion.
You yourself in another posting refers to "Muslims hating Jews" in a wide-sweeping generalised and frankly contextually wrong statement. Many Muslims hate Jews, but most do not, and since most is more than "many", your statement is wrong and appears bigoted. I do hope you are not bigoted. I have not called you a racist, show me that I did and I will recant.
The origins of my comments is based on AOWs statement about "owning" responsibility of the Norway horror. I made the view that to a degree there is some "ownership" via association, failure to sufficiently condemn and that includes within your own works.
D Charles
Gibraltar
Pastorius, I do understand the direction you are coming from and unfortunately we will have to a agree to disagree.
Anti-semitism is by default religious to both our faiths. It is to a degree existant in Christian texts as much as it is in Islamic simply because the Jews did not embrace Christ's message and even Christ condemned elements of Judaism. That is why anti-semitism exists in the Christian world and the same reasoning sits behind Islam. The verses you refer to, if you ask a moderate Imam, is in reference to the Day of Judgement because Jews were given the chance not once but twice and that they ignored God's messages. If context is to be put, another quote should be added, as the Koran also says that every "good" Jew and Christian will go to heaven standing shoulder to shoulder with "good" Muslims.
Anti-semitism only grew in Islam (remember it was mostly far less than in the West) since the creation of Israel and thus it can be considered political and not religous. Also, you said "many" Muslim countries, which then by default means "not all", why is that? Generalizations are always a mistake and not very academic and it seems to grow like nasty rumours on the blogosphere.
Mein Kampf is a good example of the power of radical Islam, yet it was and still is banned in Morocco, why is that, are not Moroccans Muslim as well?
Radical Islam has most certainly a grip, there is no disputing this and I fear we are getting off topic, as there is no dispute. My issue is context, exagerations and agendas and since you made it clear you do not support certain levels of radicalism, racism and bigotry, my point will remain the same - there is no half-arse level, get rid of it all and then you can stand tall and I will most certainly stand with you.
D Charles
Gibraltar
Sputter, sputter, sputter.
"I do not sputter," Evil Damien muttered. "I speak plain, plain brown toast," he muttered, Evil Damien muttered.
Damien Charles QC Barrister Gibraltar (lest anyone confuse yuo with the other Damien who actually makes sensible BRIEF coherent arguments here) you said originally
"A great many of the bloggers, commenters are simply haters, radical right-wingers whom in fact push and yes, even encourage hate.
As one sociologist pointed out, your almost exclusively to the right, your almost all exclusively partisan regardles of which country, and most absurdly most of your targets and anomosity is directed at "the left" and not actually at Islamists which have become an excuse.
I am Conservative, I believe also a realist. As you know AOW I am also in the courts and justice business. Professionally and morally, these blogs are corrupted and tainted and you need to clean up your act, your position and most of all whom you are supported."
You, sir, paint with too broad a brush. Are you not portraying the entire counter-jihad the same way you state they portray all of Islam?
"You all will own a little piece of this" you state because you believe we ALL say "All muslims own a piece of terrorism".
Bullshit on both counts.
You claim to be a barrister, then you should be used to a little research. Take Pastorius up on his challenge and read the posts written about our opposition to VB or EDL or BNP or any of the others. Especially in the Sept 07 to Summer 08 time period when this blog stood against many of those you name including Geller and Baron B who took rank with the VB against us and (at the time) Charles Johnson himself. We lost many readers and friends over this but didn't look back because we knew IBA was right on the issue. As was Johnson and a (very) few others.
I also suggest you show us IN OUR PAGES where any of our REGULAR contributors would promote all muslims as evil. We don't. In fact we have an open ninvitation for any moderate muslim to make his case here and OPENLY decry radical ascendant Islam. I'm not talking about comments because it is IBA to not censor ANY comments UNLESS they are open hate speech. We'd rather they show their true face and refute them here.
As far as us having to be "morally, socially and politically faultless" that's pretty humorous coming from someone in your profession. We are human and cannot be so. Only one person was and HE was a JEW.
Which, accoridng to your anti-semitism argument above, we should then be against him. But that's not an argument that belongs nor makes any sense here.
So please, let's stick to your original charge Mr Damien Charles QC Barrister Gibraltar. Come back here with some facts to substantiate your specific charge as it pertains to IBA and not the counter jihad in general.
Unless and un til then toodle off to someone who will tolerate your lies and damned lies and obfuscations and, as that certain Jew said when defending a prostitue (a profession not unlike, although much more honorable, than your own) maybe pause a moment before casting that first stone.
I've been reading your comments guys, and it is becoming painstaking. I think that if you are the leaders or owners of this community, the way you treat the blogger"Damien II" is disgraceful. His arguments have caught my attention as sensible and generous ones. On the other hand, his opponents only know how to call him " evil" or answer by " blah blah" like children in kindergarten do, while asking for .."intelligent" comments!? How funny. You guys are not credible, sorry. I will now leave this community, you appear as Zionist manipulators, as far as it seems.
PdK.
to the morally, socially and politically faultless dude and his cronie jolibulls
islam for dummies:
mohammad is the perfect example for all muslims for all times (ask any muslim).
this is what mohammad did:
Tabari IX:128 "When the Prophet married Aisha she very young and not yet ready for consummation."
Bukhari:V9B87N139-40 "Allah's Apostle told Aisha, 'You were shown to me twice in my dreams [a.k.a. sexual fantasies]. I beheld a man or angel carrying you in a silken cloth. He said to me, "She is yours, so uncover her." And behold, it was you. I would then say to myself, "If this is from Allah, then it must happen."'"
Tabari IX:131 "My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was then brought in while the Messenger was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. Then the men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old."
Bukhari:V1B4N1229-33 "Aisha [who was 9] said, 'I used to wash semen off the Prophet's [who was 53] clothes. When he went for prayers I used to notice one or more spots on them.'"
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Pedophilia
violence against women:
Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."
islam is racism:
Bukhari:V4B52N137 "The Prophet said, 'Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him.... If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.'"
YOU SUPPORT iSLAM, SHAME ON YOU!
AND DON'T BRAG THAT YOU ARE CHRISTIAN. SOME MUSLIMS SAY IF JESUS WAS ALIVE HE WOULD BE CRUCIFIED BY iSLAM.
deadly islamic terror attacks since 9/11
more than 14497
Midnight Rider,
I responded to Pastorius, no I do not know the history of this actual cite and yes I painted in a broad brush because "guilt by association" and "guilt by silence" is general and is the argument itself.
Yes "guilt by association" and guilt by silence" is also the condemnation on the Muslim World itself, I would be the first to argue the same to them and I do so. The greatest blame for hate-mongers like Wilders is the Western Muslims whom shut their mouth and let radical Islamists claim they represent the faith of Islam. Where are they?
The term "morally, socially and politically faultless" is an objective, and yes He was and is the only one who can claim to have achieved it.
My argument against IBA, which I explained well enough, is that you need to go further via association. You have enough links to "hate" on the blog, you stand by haters such as Wilders and Spencer, all are examples in themselves...
D Charles QC
Gibraltar
«Muslims whom shut their mouth and let radical Islamists claim they represent the faith of Islam. Where are they?»
lol
«haters such as Wilders and Spencer»
you are the hater, you want people to shup up about the pedophilia, the mysoginism, the racism, etc, in islam.
Basic Mathis
no name +
mindless hate +
quoting hate-sites +
I have no idea what I am talking about but read about it on a blog
= to be ignored
Damien isn't a Christian.
You just had a taqyia moment.
western muslim
oxymoron
"guilt by association" and guilt by silence"
the dude didn't condemn the pedophilia, violence against women and racism in islam. guilty!
Okay Damien II, here's who I am .. I am nearly the same age as you, 62 in Dec, I have been an active civil rights/voter registration table worker WHEN IT REALLY COUNTED and WHERE. I know the KKK and THEY HAVE KNOWN ME.
I have worked until a few years ago in cardiovascular research as a consultant who figures out HOW to answer the research questions being asked, and filled that gap with designed hardware and software, and during that time flew over 150k miles per year EVERYWHERE research is done, from ~1987-2003. Thus I have been around.
I am american who happens to be jewish.
I believe the existence of Israel IN THIS WORLD is compulsory for a single jew to survive, but I don't really give a damn about settlements, except as a negotiating tool for peace (HAH, impossible)
I believe the arabs will NEVER accept Israel FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS and that HAMAS truly represents the 'correct' islamic position on this, and that they WILL BE the dominant arab force in that domain.
I have been EXTREMELY active politically as a democrat in New Hampshire (we live in Maine now) but have not been able to vote for a democrat NATIONALLY since the 1976 election.
I do not believe muslims evil, but I DO BELIEVE because of the claimed nature of the Quran that document to be EXTREMELY EVIL. Which is to say, if god is perfect he didn't write it, and if he did, he's not perfect since he is a racist.
I challenge muslims of conscience (and there are plenty) to speak publicly on this point.
I have fought to keep researchers I know (one from Kashmir) here in the USA at visa expiration time (and it was two CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN SEN'S THAT HELPED)...significantly I have been told by several, none of whom know each other, that they are here to 'escape the madness' and did not want to bring their families to mosque.
I believe that the DOMINANT ASCENDANT form of Islam today IS evil in its belief, practice and function, and can only lead to worldwide cataclysm BY THEIR CHOICE, not ours. And this will occur because IN THE END, as it always is for democratic nations the 'near run thing' will be decided peacefully at the ballot box against them.
I believe that Muslims whose consciences are revolted by what they have seen MUST SPEAK OUT AGAINST THIS PUBLICLY, but when challenged they never do ... here in the USA typically less than 48 show up when public demonstrations have been called for by those few brave souls
I beleive that Islamism as defined by the Muslims Brotherhood in inextricably intertwined with nazi idealogies. AND THEREFORE MUST BE RESISTED 100% of the time.
I believe Khomeinism just as malignant and racist.
I believe that as long as the Quran MUST BE immutable, there can never really be an end to this.
Now you know me
PS .. I've been on islamic forums since 9/13/2001, and it is THEY who aer happy to very kindly a lot of times tell me WHO THEY REALLY ARE
This is what I was trying to tell Damien. He comes here attacking us, yet not knowing anything about us.
He just assumes.
And, he doesn't know the history of our blog. He doesn't know the history of our relationship with the people who are being accused in this Breivik situation. He doesn't know what we support, or do not support.
He equates, Islam is evil if it means this and this and this, and Muslims are evil to the extent they believe this, this, and this
to
All Muslims are evil
That is called Conflation.
It is the opposite of critical analysis. It does not take critical analysis to conflate, to mush everything into moral equivalence.
In fact, moral equivalence is the first game of justification for crimes in sibling rivalry. In other words, it is child's play.
It is not an intellectual argument.
I am reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
EPA and the rest.
My comments were clear enough, if anything you are all assuming perhaps as much as I do. I certainly did not know the history of this site and I ma relieved to know the feelings about racism and bigotry here. Having said that, your blog is linked to Wilders and the phrases you have used are generalised to a point that it is easy to confuse your motives.
Because of my location (I am a dual-Spanish national and accredited in both countries) I work with clients in Ceuta and Melilia which are Spanish Enclaves in North Africa and thus I have many Muslim clients. I travel to Morocco regularly as I can simply catch a ferry. Also I am a co-chiar of an international legal forum based in Kuala Lumpur and thus I go there reasonably regulary. Add to that out of interest with much of my client base, I have earned myself tertiary studies in Islamic history and politics.
Why I say this, so you also know "who I am". I base my views (and values) on evidence, academia and what I believe is evident realities on the ground. Not the blogosphere, rumour mills and bigotry that does alter facts. Spencer for example shreds context, Wilders equally so and there is building evidence that he is sponsored to do so.
I abhore Islamists, anti-Integrationists but I do not accept the Muslim's Koran as being a guide to hate as statistically there is more death, destruction and license to kill in the Old Testiment if taken literally. Sure, the point is that radical Islamists take their Koran literally but evidence also says that they stand by themselves and the five schools of Islamic jurispudence do not.
My biggest "beef" is with Western Muslims whom simply keep their mouths shut and thus mostly the agenda-based bigots stand-up and take the void that they have left.
There is a great deal in we share in views, the problem is drawing the line of what is and what is not acceptable and what impact that has on your own image and the arugments you can give, because in the end the objective is awareness, not amongst yourselves but the wider world.
Peace
"Wilders equally so and there is building evidence that he is sponsored to do so."
url please so we may all judge how objective the evidenced is
I will try and search an alternative link because the two that I have are also linked to a legal work forum discussing the subject and thus my and others' personal and work details are there.
Who is he "sponsored" by, Damien II?
Are not many politicians "sponsored" in the form of campaign contributions?
I will not go into detail because even I would say it still qualifies as an accussation, but attempts to trace Wilders' funding (because Dutch law does not force disclosure) indicates that it "may" be mostly from particular groups that also fund the Settler Movement.
Though I would not be suprised and it falls in line with the fact that a third of his comments being mimics from certain groups statements, I am the most vocal of not accepting the material as being concrete until full verification is made. If that occurs, the ECJ and EU Parliamentary Ethics Committee will eat both the VVD and the Dutch Government alive.
The Netherlands is the ONLY EU nation that does not demand disclosure of donations (to ensure unwarrented influence) AND allowing a political party to be created soley on signatures. Remember that Wildres is the only "member" of the VDD and the others are "associates" with no voting rights. It is most certainly the exact opposite of the meaning of democracy or freedom of speech.
It shouldn't be news, it was the Jews.
Damien II - this is simple stuff...if the 'proofs' exist only as words in a forum they COME FROM SOMEWHERE verifiable. You can Ctrl-c this out and then WE CAN ALL FOLLOW THE THREADS, so sorry but otherwise this is no different than if a Pam Geller commenter claimed he/she had proofs Anders Breivik actually a muslim convert dedicated to getting counter jihad blogs.
SURELY YOU CAN SEE THAT
Certainly you have it in for the 'settler movement' but that is MEANINGLESS as an accusation since it qualifies neither their efforts, beliefs, or any connection to Wilders.
Devoid of that, this is simply a low grade ATTEMPT at a smear.
Please provide something we can sink our teeth into.
If you read my comment I said the details given were in my professional opinion only hearsay and thus not acceptable. I am the first one to say that, however, the level of inquiry and the reputation of the inquirers is very good and thus it justifies further scrutiny. Simply put I am waiting for more details and that is all.
That is not "smear" and I commented that there is justification for inquiries which as a former prosecutor I can tell you is more than sufficient to warrent it. What should be of concern to you is three factors.
1. That every political party in The Netherlands gave all its financial sponsor details except the PVV hiding behind the very archaic and embarassing Dutch Electoral Sytem.
2. The Settler Movement groups that are involved include those created by ex JDL members (remembering it was disbanded and judged to be a domestic teror group in the US) as well as what was formally the Kahanist Groups.
3. Yes it appears they are Jews and thus if proven correct would be a very large scandal and set-back not only for Wilders, The Dutch Government but also for the very many peace-loving Jews both in the US and in Israel.
I ask you this, does simply mentioning the word "Jew" mean an accussation and is being a "Jew" an immunity to criticism? If anything, when I see sarcastic comments like, "Should have known it was the Jews" I actually wonder how serious the writer is. Since you defend Wilders, I assumed you aware that he visits Israel regularly, worked and lived in a Kabbutz that is known to have links to the Kahanist Movement, that three of his staff are Israeli nationals from that same community and are not Dutch, that the only one (Gid Markuszower) had a Dutch passport which he wanted to make an MP until he was found to be the Dutch Likud Party representative and was arrested for carrying a fire-arm in Dutch streets.
Yes we all know about violent Islamists and violent Palestinians but please do not tell me that there are no violent, extreme or radical Jews or Israelis.
And, is it not natural that Hirsi Ali would go to America, considering the fact that she was pretty much driven out of her country?
I know a lot about Kahane, and again, you claim to be who u are, we don't know and you are asking us to take your word for this crap while you await developments.
As a SKEPTIC you can imagine what I think about that.
1) THERE is not now nor has there ever been a monolithic 'settler movement' as such. Koch might come closest. They were a hideous example of a mirror image, and Kahane himself, as the victim of El Sayed Nosair, actually became the first casualty of the war which became so obvious on 9/11 (just look up the killer and you will see who was involved)
2) The govt of Israel in the person of no less than Ariel Sharon put the most militant of them in their place in 2005, didn't he?
3) It didn't achieve 1 mm of motion towards peace, proving that territory is not the objective of the arabs
4) If true, it would not only NOT be a major scandal here, IT WOULD BARELY GET NOTICED.
5) Since Jews are at this very moment, abandoning, and being intimidated and driven from places like Malmo, ALL OF FRANCE, and the British have warned observant Jews not to wear yarmulkes because their security could not be protected, WHY WOULDN'T EVERY EUROPEAN WHO HAPPENED TO BE JEWISH AND COULD AFFORD IT NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE POLITICAL MOVEMENT OF GEERT WILDERS? - who has correctly identified the malignant aspects of AT LEAST the ascendant form of Islam, whose RESULTS A MAJORITY of muslims agree with in every poll, AND think is relgiously proper.
Last, "I ask you this, does simply mentioning the word "Jew" mean an accussation and is being a "Jew" an immunity to criticism?"
No, but when the most academic of critics HERE in the USA offer such criticism, it suddenly turns into WORD FOR WORD... americans who happen to be jewish are involved in an inchoate/choate non conspiracy/semi organized effort to benefit Israel at the the expense of the USA (Walt and Mearsheimer).
Thus, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE HISTORY OF EUROPE (and I am talking about from MEDIEVAL TIMES not Hitler) when I hear someone from Europe go off on such a tangent, it has my FULL ATTENTION.
You need to seriously consider the idea that this effort these jews are involved in EVEN IF EVERYTHING YOU CHARGE AS A PROSECUTOR IS TRUE, is to do whatever they can to simply SURVIVE.
More, it was only 1753 that jews could even LIVE legally in England, wasn't it? I think you had better seriously consider that embedded in your own education, culture and therefore personal proclivities is a bent which needs to be very carefully examined.
If all you say ever turned out to be true, what I SEE, is a bunch of people the victims of repeated, unlimited, oppressions, expulsions, mass murders, and finally genocide, now again facing the same old same old, who properly identified a politician who could help them, and therefore they are helping him.
Rather than PERSECUTING this effort to survive, perhaps you ought to be looking carefully at the causes which generate desperate, NON VIOLENT FINANCIAL DONATIONS for Wilders by this group.
EPA, I do not see the need to repeat the story of the persecution of Jews in Europe, we all know the facts. I can even add that in the city of Amsterdam there was a separate "Jew Tax" present until 1911 (15 per cent higher, of course).
Your comments are a bit pointless in regards to Wilders because I consider him to be a bigot, his arguments are in fact targetting all of Islam and if it is proven to be partially motivated to support the partial or toal annexation of the West Bank then that is worse.
I am the first to admit that I have a particularly low opinion of any group wishing to create Settlements on the West Bank and it should be pointed out that they mostly do it under the pretext that "God gave them the land" though I personally think it is just a land grab.
Having that opinion about Settlers does not mean I am anti-Israeli or anti-Semitic, far from it. I support Israel's right to protection and I believe the resonsiblity is on the shoulders of the Palestinians to prove that they can create a viable State, which I think they currently cannot. Though a simplistic thought on my part, I would have no problem with Israel allowing the formation of a Palestinian State, removing all its military, declaring a cease-fire but also pointing out that after day 60 if one rocket or one shell is fired, then it will be a formal declaration of War of one State against another and that the EU, US and the UN are then obliged to support them. Currently, unilateral actions by Israel give excuses to such organisations and countries to wash their hands of it. I should add that if a Palestinian State was allowed, more than likely all but 5 nations will end up recognising Israel and the rhetoric will end up being only by radicals. IMHO
Post a Comment