Showing posts with label Saudi Arabia. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Saudi Arabia. Show all posts

Saturday, July 23, 2022

Jewish reporter enters Mecca, sparking Muslim outrage

This incident is, most unfortunately, an important sign that Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia have a long way to go before becoming fully accepting of Jews visiting the countries they live in and govern:
Gil Tamary, a reporter for Channel 13, sparked outrage from Muslims and Jews after he entered Mecca and filmed a report within the Muslim holy city as millions of Muslims from around the world conducted the Hajj (pilgrimage) to the city.

Tamary was in Saudi Arabia as he had received a special permit, along with two other Israeli reporters, to cover the regional conference attended by US President Joe Biden last week.

Non-Muslims are completely prohibited from entering the city of Mecca and are largely banned from the city of Medina
, although restrictions on access to Medina have reportedly been somewhat lightened in recent years. The ban is largely based on a verse in the Quran (Surah At-Tawbah 9:28) banning polytheists from approaching the Great Mosque in Mecca.

In the Channel 13 report published on Monday, Tamary notes that non-Muslims are not allowed into Mecca, but he proceeded to detail how he managed to enter the city and go up Mt. Arafat with a Muslim driver regardless.

The journalist stressed that the driver did not know that he was an Israeli journalist, as he took care to speak only in English.
Tragically, the following report suggests the driver was the one arrested by Arabian authorities:
A Saudi citizen who allegedly helped Israeli journalist Gil Tamary enter the Muslim holy city of Mecca has been arrested and will be prosecuted, Mecca police said Friday. Official Saudi media also indicated “procedures” would be instituted against Tamary.

Channel 13 on Monday aired a clip of Tamary sneaking into Mecca, Islam’s holiest city, in defiance of a ban on non-Muslims.

Mecca regional police have “referred a citizen” to prosecutors for alleged complicity in “transferring and facilitating the entry of a (non-Muslim) journalist,” a police spokesperson said in comments reported by the official Saudi Press Agency.

[...] To protect his companion’s identity, Tamary did not show his face and warped his voice in the one-minute video the news outlet’s Twitter posted on Monday, and Channel 13 aired a ten-minute report documenting his visit that night.
Yet it would seem as though the driver may have been the one they arrested, and if they're giving him hell on earth, that's obscene. The man should be released immediately. For now, this demonstrates that Arabia still isn't ready to be considered a civilized country, and shouldn't even be allowed to invest in overseas businesses, as a result.

But why does the Jerusalem Post say Jews were outraged? That's just simply ludicrous.

Sunday, June 30, 2019

About Mecca

Some interesting information here, information which removes Mecca from its central place in Islam:

Thursday, November 16, 2017

Monday, May 22, 2017

An NYT Reader's Comment On Trump's Riyadh Speech


This comment appeared to the opinion piece "This Wasn't a Speech About Islam" by Mustafa Akyol and Wajahat Ali (New York Times, May 21, 2017):
TDurk Rochester NY
I am not a supporter of Donald Trump. I find the man to be repugnant and his proposed domestic policies to be injurious to the interests of the American people.

That said, his speech focused on the responsibility of the Muslim people to stamp out Islamic terrorism. He correctly laid the issue at the feet of the states, the clergies and the money who have, either through benign neglect or quiet support, allowed barbarians to use religious fervor as an excuse to commit barbarous acts upon innocents. He correctly stated that the problem is not the problem of the US or of Europe to solve, although the west may need to eradicate the terrorist structures, root and branch.

In this instance, Donald Trump is right.
In the opinion piece, Mustafa Akyol, a contributing opinion writer, is a visiting fellow at the Freedom Project at Wellesley College and the author of The Islamic Jesus: How the King of the Jews Became a Prophet of the Muslims, whined:
A “speech on Islam” could have included some references to the faith, an acknowledgment that Islam is a great religion with values in common with Judeo-Christianity, and with a history of pluralism and tolerance. A “speech on Muslims” could have also been richer, with perhaps examples of how Muslims have contributed to the world, including to American society. This was a more modest, narrow and pragmatic speech, mostly appealing to Muslim leaders — in fact, only Sunni ones — for more cooperation against terrorism. But given Mr. Trump’s earlier views on Islam, it could have been worse!
Mr. Akyol is correct: Trump's Riyadh speech wasn't nearly as sycophantic as the 2009 Cairo Speech spewed by Apologist-In-Chief Barack Hussein Obama.

Additional reading...Tale of the Tape: How Trump's First Middle East Speech Compares to Obama's: Half as many self-references, zero Koran quotes, more focus on Islamic extremism.

Monday, June 13, 2016

MORE ORLANDO SHOOTER/JIHADIST NEWS


'50 perverts killed in bar': Homophobic headline on Turkish newspaper website with strong ties to country's President Erdogan

Dead club gunman was interviewed by FBI over terror links THREE times – yet worked for government security contractor and bought guns legally



FROM THE WITNESSES


Witness video via twitter outside of Pulse club. Audio reveals the relentless pace of shooter. 25 steady paced shots in 9 sec video
---------


No one seems to be picking up on this interview:

Twitter video
ABCNews EXCLUSIVE/#ABC2020 visible on video clip...."Man says he played dead to keep Orlando shooter from killing him."
2:15 length video interview reveals the shooter made calls during massacre...ff:0:43"then he called somebody else that he knew and he mentioned that he was the 4th shooter and there was three others and he mentioned, I believe, a female name and was playing dead...he's saying she has a bombing vest and he has one too."

Friday, September 25, 2015

Abdul Shalabi Released From Gitmo

Abdul Shalabi: Osama bin Laden's and Kalid Sheik Mohammed's bodyguard

While the media were oohing and aahing over Pope Francis's visit to the United States, Abdul Shalabi was released from Gitmo and is now in Saudi Arabia:
...Shalabi, who was captured by Pakistani forces in 2001, was once deemed (by the Bush administration) “too dangerous to release” but under the Obama administration has been repatriated by U.S. officials on Tuesday [September 23, 2015].

An Obama military review board released a report [Must-read link!] that cleared Abdul Rahman Shalabi for release. Shalabi has been sent to Saudi Arabia where he will be placed into a “rehabilitation program” for militants. The review board said the effectiveness of the Saudi rehabilitation program was an important factor in its decision. The board also noted the detainee’s “credible desire” to re-integrate into society and participate in the rehabilitation program, but it “acknowledges the detainee’s past terrorist-related activities.” A statement that he was likely to still have sympathies to extremists was also made by the panel who recommended his release....
According to CNN:
...Shalabi's transfer from Guantanamo was the second announced in less than a week, leaving 114 detainees at the naval base that the Obama administration is pushing to close.

"The United States is grateful to the government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for its willingness to support ongoing U.S. efforts to close the Guantanamo Bay detention facility. The United States coordinated with the government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to ensure this transfer took place consistent with appropriate security and humane treatment measures," the Defense Department said in a statement.

It announced last week that Younis Abdurrahman Chekkouri had been transferred to Morocco.

The remaining 114 detainees being held at Guantanamo fall into two categories: Those who can be transferred to other countries and those who the United States must continue to hold.

In August, Defense Secretary Ash Carter said that Pentagon teams were looking at U.S. sites to house the detainees....
About Younis Abdurrahman Chekkouri:
Alleged to be associated with the Moroccan Islamic Fighting Group and Jama'at Al-Tablighi.
Emptying Gitmo is another of Obama's campaign promises which he intends to keep. Come hell or high water.

Wednesday, January 28, 2015

MICHELLE OBAMA REFUSES TO WEAR HIJAB IN SUCKY ARABIA, LOOKS DECIDEDLY UNHAPPY IN THEIR FUCKED-UP WORLD

Just like a real American should.

Gotta Say, I Kinda Admire Michelle Obama Today.

Saudi Arabian TV blurred out her face because she didn't wear the head covering.



Weasel Snippers has a whole bunch of photos of Michelle looking more than displeased with her surroundings.

THE SAUDIS ARE OUTRAGED:
First lady Michelle Obama faced backlash from Twitter users in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday for not wearing a head covering during her brief visit there with the president. 
Obama wore loose-fitting clothes including a long blue jacket and dark pants while accompanying President Barack Obama during their four hours on the ground in Riyadh to offer condolences on the death of King Abdullah and for the president to meet with new King Salman. 
On Twitter, Saudis used a hashtag that translates to “#Michelle_Obama_Immodest” or “#Michelle_Obama_NotVeiled” to chastise the first lady for being disrespectful to Saudi traditions. 
Saudi Arabia has a strict dress code for women, who are instructed to wear black robes and head coverings at all times in public, though visitors to the country are not required to abide by the dress code. In 2011, when then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton met with Abdullah in New York, she did not cover her face or hair. 
Nor did then-first lady Laura Bush during a 2006 visit with Abdullah in Saudi Arabia. 
Fuck the Saudis and fuck their whole stupid fucking family, their whole stupid fucking country, and their whole stupid fucking religion.

And that faggot Mohammed can lick my butt and suck on my balls.


Friday, January 23, 2015

Wednesday, July 09, 2014

Secret Uprising In Saudi Arabia

With a hat tip to Mark Alexander of A New Dark Age Is Dawning and worth your time:


Apparently, these protests have been ongoing for at least three years.

YouTube offers this blurb:
In Saudi Arabia's oil-rich Eastern province a 3-year uprising has been raging, hidden from the world. With unprecedented access, this report explores the growing protest movement - the biggest in Saudi history.

In scenes reminiscent of Libya, Egypt and Bahrain, masked protesters fill the streets, fling rocks and chant "martyrdom is better than oppression" as police bullets fly. In the Shia-dominated Eastern region of Qatif, there has been growing resentment that despite "standing on top of oil fields that feed the world", local communities suffer poverty, sectarian discrimination and no political freedom. Figureheads of the protests have been added to government wanted lists, been arrested and several have been killed in dubious circumstances. Saudi filmmaker Safa Al Ahmad risks arrest and worse to get inside this troubled region. In secret meetings protesters share their accounts of the growing state violence against them and their families. One leader's disabled sister tells of how security forces "came while I was sleeping and threatened me with a gun". The movement insists it is nonetheless growing, but a few incidences of violence by protesters have alienated many locals and given the state justification for their crackdown. After protesters fire on security forces, police funerals are broadcast on public television and the rioters are officially labelled "terrorists". Both sides are now entrenched. "It is very dangerous for the future. The state just want to show the iron fist. The only reaction is apathy or violence."

Saturday, May 17, 2014



Health authorities in Saudi Arabia have reported three more fatalities from the MERS respiratory virus, taking the death toll in the world's worst-hit country to 163.

The health ministry website also revealed on Saturday that 520 cases have been recorded in the country since Middle East Respiratory Syndrome first appeared in Saudi Arabia in 2012.

It said three women died on Friday, including one in Riyadh, 48, and a 67-year-old in the western city of Taif.

A third woman died in Jeddah, the port city where a spate of cases among staff at King Fahd Hospital last month sparked public panic and the dismissal of its director and the health minister.

Other nations including Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, the Netherlands, the United Arab Emirates and the United States have also recorded cases, mostly in people who had been to the desert kingdom. 

Wednesday, May 14, 2014


Worker who cared for Orlando MERS patient hospitalized, another sick
ORLANDO -- Two Orlando health care workers who treated a 44-year-old man with MERS now have flu-like symptoms. One was admitted to the hospital, while the other was sent home.
Test results are expected today to find out if they and approximately two dozen others, who had contact with the patient, have contracted the potentially deadly disease. If any results come back positive, it'll be the first time MERS is contracted in the U.S.



Florida MERS Patient Sat In A Busy ER For Nearly 8 Hours
Almost eight more hours passed before staff at Orlando's Dr. P. Phillips Hospital determined the patient had traveled from Saudi Arabia, where he worked at a hospital, began to suspect his exposure to MERS and had him moved to an isolation room, the hospital's chief quality control officer said...While the Orlando patient waited to be admitted, he was treated in a single room in the emergency department where healthcare workers wore gloves and gowns due to his diarrhea, but did not wear goggles and face masks appropriate for protecting them from the virus, Crespo said.

Florida officials said they were monitoring the health of 20 healthcare workers who had been in contact with the patient, including a doctor who had already left for Canada. They also were trying to track down nearly 100 people who may have overlapped with the patient at two Orlando medical facilities he visited.

Read more. 
*****
-How many ER visitors (staff, messengers, Transport staff moving throughout the hospital . . .as well as patients & family) shared the same restroom(s) (sinks, toilets, paper dispensers etc.) with the Saudi MERS patient (suffering from diarrhea) during the 4-8 hours it took to suspect MERS ?

Last updated Wednesday, May. 14 2014, 7:30 AM EDT


Woman exposed to MERS speaks out -
22 hospital workers asked to stay home

Health officials said Tuesday roughly 500 people may have been exposed to the MERS virus by flying on planes within the United States with the sick patient.

One of those travelers learned Tuesday morning she had been exposed and was sent a health checklist.

"They informed me that there was a confirmed case of the MERS virus from my flight from Atlanta to Orlando. I was really scared," said the woman who does not want to be identified, but lives in Virginia and flew with her husband on May 1 aboard the same Delta flight with the MERS-infected patient.

Twelve days after her flight, her State Health Department called and sent her a letter that reads:

"You were exposed to a person with Middle East Respiratory Syndrome(MERS) on your flight" and asks if she has symptoms like fever (100.4 f degrees), cough, difficulty breathing, wheezing, or pain when coughing or breathing deeply. She and others who flew with the MERS patient must record their temperature for 14 days after their exposure."

"I was in shock that I could actually contract it. We're considered exposed but there was no level associated with that. They just said to me, 'You and your husband are considered to be exposed to the MERS virus,'" she said.

She and her husband have no symptoms but still have to monitor their health and they have until May 15 before they are in the clear.

Health officials said the MERS patient continues to improve at the hospital. Health officials said because he was not coughing on board the flights, the risk of spreading the virus to people on the plane is very low. The risk continues to decline among people who had even less contact with him at the airport or elsewhere.

Dr. Kevin Sherin, with the Florida Department of Health at Orange County, said, "I think the risk is negligible to this community."

Sunday, October 27, 2013

Saudi Activists Cancel Women 'Drive-in' Plan

From A New Dark Age Is Dawning:
AL JAZEERA: A planned driving campaign has been cancelled after the government threatened legal action against the women involved.

Activists pressing to end Saudi Arabia's ban on women driving have dropped plans for a "drive-in" on Saturday after threats of legal action and have opted instead for an open-ended campaign.

"Out of caution and respect for the interior ministry's warnings ... we are asking women not to drive tomorrow and to change the initiative from an October 26 campaign to an open driving campaign," activist Najla al-Hariri told AFP news agency on Friday.

Several women said they had received telephone calls from the ministry, which openly warned on Thursday of measures against activists who chose to participate and asked them to promise not to drive on Saturday.
CBS News has yet to update the story on the CBS site, where the outdated version is still on the web site's first page as a lead story.

No mention of the cancellation in the Washington Post (Associated Press) either.

And same goes for CNN.

Obfuscation rules the day!

Friday, May 03, 2013

McLean, Virginia: Investigation Of Human Trafficking


At the Saudi diplomatic mansion:
MCLEAN, Va. - Two domestic workers have been removed from a diplomatic mansion in McLean following accusations they were being held like slaves.

The gated compound on Orris Street is owned by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's Armed Forces Office, according to real estate records.

[...]

There could be hundreds of people brought to this country and placed in involuntary servitude, essentially as slaves, either for domestic help or as a sex slave, Virginia Congressman Frank Wolf tells WTOP....
Thus far, no official comment from Saudi Arabia.

Monday, June 11, 2012

The Saudis' U.S. Empire

(Hat tip to Mark Alexander of A New Dark Age Is Dawning)

From the Independent, date June 6, 2012:
Revealed: Saudi royals' secret $1bn US empire

A secret $1bn US property empire amassed by members of the Saudi royal family is the subject of a bitter legal dispute that threatens to reveal the extent of the family's American business interests.

The oil giant BP and the British defence contractor BAE Systems are among the tenants of companies associated with Prince Abdul Aziz bin Fahd, the playboy son of the late King Fahd, according to court documents.

Lawyers for the companies are asking a judge to keep their ultimate ownership secret, but correspondence between the two sides currently remains on the record in a New York courthouse.

The documents reveal that over the past 15 years, Prince Abdul Aziz and a relative, Sheikh Khalid N Al Assaf, amassed a property portfolio that spans the US, from BAE offices in Reston, Virginia, near the capital Washington, to the headquarters of the television company Starz in California. They also purchased two of the four buildings in the office complex that BP uses as its US headquarters in Houston, Texas.

[...]

Lawyers for the portfolio companies, meanwhile, are fighting to keep the prince's identity secret....
More at the above link.

It's economic jihad, perhaps the stealthiest kind of jihad.

Sunday, March 04, 2012

The Saudis And Viagra

Psychological problems:
Saudi Arabia is the world’s sixth largest consumer of sex drugs as domestic demand is as much as 10 times that in Russia, according to a newspaper.

Alriyadyh Arabic language daily, citing an unnamed medical study in the Gulf Kingdom, said nearly 12 per cent of Saudi Arabia’s 20 million national men are suffering from impotence and that 80 per cent of the cases are associated with psychological problems.

[...]

According to the study, Arab countries spend more than $10 billion on Viagra and other anti-impotence medicines every year and that Saudi Arabia alone spends over $1.5 billion.

It is followed by Egypt and the UAE...
Maybe Allah doesn't like these guys, after all. Just sayin'.

Friday, February 17, 2012

The Weeping Saudi Sheikh

What to say about the weeping fool below as he sobs over a Tweet that insulted the Prophet Muhammad?

From Mark Alexander's A New Dark Age Is Dawning:


This sheikh is soooo worried that the prophet has been insulted. Well, Muhammad is DEAD.

Furthermore, if Allah is so great and so powerful, why does he always need defending via cutting off the heads of apostates?

Friday, February 03, 2012

The Jinn. Again.


You can't make this nonsense up. From this source (hat tip to Weasel Zippers):
A Saudi defence lawyer has asked court to summon a jinn (genie) claimed to have possessed a judge who has been arrested on corruption charges, the Saudi Arabic language daily Okaz reported on Saturday.

The lawyer, Salim bin Atteyya, told court that the jinn must be present in court to testify in the case of the corrupt judge in Madina...

Wednesday, January 18, 2012

King Abdullah International Gardens Design in Saudi Arabia Mirrors Flight 93 9/11 Memorial in Shanksville, PA

Flight 93
Can you imagine the heroes of flight 93 seeing this? The victims of jihad on flight 93 who died to the wails of allahu akbar.
King Abdullah International Gardens in Saudi Arabia Design Bears Uncanny Resemblance to the Flight 93 9/11 Memorial in Shanksville, PA

Here is the Flight 93 Memorial, "Crescent of Embrace."
Go here (scroll) for more on the flight 93 memorial here.
Flight_93_memorial
Islamic_memorial_flgiht_93



Click on the title to read the whole thing at Atlas Shrugs.

Friday, July 01, 2011

Warning: Extremely Graphic Images - Woman Beheaded In Front of the Kaaba

UPDATED BELOW & bumped

It is claimed this beheading takes place "in front of the Kaaba", which is a holy meteorite that Muslims believe Allah sent to Earth as some sort of revelation.

How we are supposed to know that, indeed, this is in front of the Kaaba, I have no idea. I suppose none of us has ever been on Hajj, right?

From Will at The Other News:



Anyway, if really does take place in front of the Kaaba, well, it tells you even more about Islam than you knew before.

midnight rider updates:

This doesn't seem to be in front of the Kaaba but that doesn't matter.

You may remember some months ago we (and many others) reported on an Indonesian maid working in Saudi Arabia who had claimed she was abused by her Saudi employer and had killed him. She was condemned to death.

This, apparently, was the execution this past weekend.

The story from the Telegraph and the video from an ME newscast:

Maid's beheading in Saudi Arabia halts Indonesian domestic worker scheme
Indonesia will suspend sending domestic helpers to Saudi Arabia after the beheading of a maid convicted of murdering her Saudi employer.

Migrant worker Ruyati binti Sapubi, 54, was executed after she was convicted of murdering her Saudi employer, Khairiya bint Hamid Mijlid, with a meat cleaver.

The maid carried out the killing after she was denied permission to leave the kingdom and return to her family in Indonesia, according to officials in Jakarta.

"The Indonesian government has decided to impose a moratorium on sending workers to Saudi Arabia," labour minister Muhaimin Iskandar was quoted by state news agency Antara as saying.

The report did not provide further details but local media indicated the move was aimed at domestic workers, who make up about 70 per cent of the 1.2 million Indonesian workers in the Gulf state.

The suspension will take effect on August 1 and will remain until the Saudi government agrees to sign a memorandum of understanding (MoU) to protect Indonesian workers' rights, Iskandar said.

Saudi Arabia apologised for failing to inform Indonesia of the beheading, while Jakarta formally protested to Riyadh over the execution.

"The ambassador apologised and regretted the situation and said that such a thing wouldn't happen again in future," foreign ministry spokesman Michael Tene said.

Indonesia recalled its ambassador to Riyadh earlier this week for consultations.

In a second case, a court in the Saudi capital Riyadh had sentenced Indonesian maid Darsem to death for murdering her Yemeni employer in December 2007 in what she called an act of self-defence as the employer had tried to rape her.

Indonesian officials had said she could escape the sentence if she received pardon from the family, who forgave her in January on the condition that she pays the compensation or "diyat" of two million riyals ($533,000).

The Indonesian government will pay the compensation ahead of July's deadline, Mr Tene said.

"The full amount has been transferred to the Indonesian embassy in Riyadh and a team from the Foreign Ministry will be flying there tonight to oversee the payment process. We hope her life will be spared," he said.

The women's cases are the latest in a string of incidents involving Indonesian menial labourers in the Middle East. This week authorities in Saudi Arabia discovered a Sri Lankan maid who had been kept against her will without pay for nearly 14 years by her local employers.

Human rights groups say workers from countries such as Indonesia, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka underpin the Gulf states' economies but face extreme forms of exploitation.



Avenging Apostate (who, of course, was a Muslim) writes to tell me this DEFINITELY was not in front of the Kaaba.

Midnight Rider writes that that is not important to the story. And, he is correct, of course.

However, IT IS IMPORTANT TO THE CREDIBILITY OF THE ANTI-JIHAD MOVEMENT THAT WE DON'T JUST MAKE SHIT UP.

From Avenging Apostate:
I just read your post on the beheading. Just wanted to comment on that.

1) I have been to both Mecca and to the mosque that houses the kaaba many times. This beheading is not taking place in the vicinity of the kaaba. Maybe in Mecca but not in front of the kaaba.

2) the kaaba itself is not the meteorite, the kaaba is the square building that is covered with black cloth (don't know if you've ever seen it on tv). The meteorite is sort of the corner stone of the kaaba. The meteorite is called "hijr-e-aswad", if you were wondering.

3) the more we buy Saudi oil, no matter where we are, the more we support beheadings of innocent people in saudi arabia, where beheadings are a state practice usually applied to punish non muslims or muslims of "lower classes" or what saudis see as "lower races". Oh not just oil but anything made in saudi arabia!!

Friday, March 25, 2011

Wedge Between The United States And Saudi Arabia?

With a hat tip to Mark Alexander of A New Dark Age Is Dawning, citing the Miami Herald:
The United States and Saudi Arabia — whose conflicted relationship has survived oil shocks, the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and the U.S. invasion of Iraq — are drifting apart faster than at any time in recent history, according to diplomats, analysts and former U.S. officials.

The breach, punctuated by a series of tense diplomatic incidents in the past two weeks, could have profound implications for the U.S. role in the Middle East, even as President Barack Obama juggles major Arab upheavals from Libya to Yemen.

The Saudi monarchy, which itself has been loathe to introduce democratic reforms, watched with deepening alarm as the White House backed Arab opposition movements and helped nudge from power former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, another long-time U.S. ally, according to U.S. and Arab officials.

That alarm turned to horror when the Obama administration demanded that the Saudi-backed monarchy of Bahrain negotiate with protesters representing the country's majority Shiite Muslim population. To Saudi Arabia's Sunni rulers, Bahrain's Shiites are a proxy for Shiite Iran, its historic adversary.

[...]

In a speech Sunday in the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Prince Turki al-Faisal, a former ambassador to Washington, said the Gulf countries now must look after their own security — a role played exclusively by the United States since the 1979 fall of the Shah of Iran....
What will happen if Saudi gets really pissed off and persuades OPEC to no longer accept U.S. dollars as payment for oil?