JERUSALEM - Israeli-U.S. relations have hit a 35-year low over a West Bank settlement plan that threatens to derail peacemaking efforts with the Palestinians, Israel's envoy to Washington was quoted as saying on Monday.
The comments attributed to Ambassador Michael Oren, a noted Middle East historian, clashed with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's assurances that the row resulting from a settlement announcement deemed "insulting" by the Obama administration was under control.
"Israel's ties with the United States are in their worst crisis since 1975 ... a crisis of historic proportions," the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper quoted Oren as telling other Israeli diplomats in a telephone briefing over the weekend.
The remarks, also carried by other Israeli media, appeared to refer to U.S. pressure in 1975 for an Israeli redeployment in the Egyptian Sinai, occupied by Israel since the 1967 war and the site of renewed fighting in 1973.
I'm getting tired of warning that the US is NOT the only weapons supplier (i.e. Israeli National Security helper) in this world. We would do well to consider a middle east in which our main 'ally' is JORDAN, or IRAQ, or KSA.
I am not one who believes that the west bank, Judea and Samaria is some god given Jewish 'waqf', but I am one who believes that the Arabs have lost in war, actually, SEVERAL WARS OF JEWISH ANNIHILATION, any right to complain about a damn thing, when they could have had a settlement ANY MOMENT THEY WISHED TO ACCEPT AN ISRAEL since 1937. Every day that passes while they obfuscate the true goal, reiterated in Arabic every time they say in English they want peace, SHOULD cause more Jewish building. Given the real goal of the Arabs, what is there to lose?
Since the USA refuses to call a spade a spade, making some Ho Chi Minh Peace, if it works out that way, the goal, rather than an Israel existing in some kind of security among 100% of other neighbors who want her dead, what does ISRAEL have to lose by casting about for other COMPLETELY UNSCRUPULOUS weapons suppliers, who won't make some dreamlike, vapid, 15 year old girl fantasy the aspiration of national policy.
Oren has the correct approach. This should be brought to a head by adults.
We have a lot to lose. More than Israel. And they have a LOT to lose.
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UPDATE FROM HAARETZ- ULTIMATUM FROM OBAMA ..always tough on those who can do no harm to us
11 comments:
Michael Oren is one of the authors of this house of cards.
Carl in Jerusalem pointed out that Michael Oren told an audience at Georgetown in April 2009 that the only way to 'save' Israel as a democratic Jewish state is to 'unilaterally withdraw' from most of Judea and Samaria.
Read the whole thing. Oren also says that he agreed with the 'disengagement' from Gaza.
Oren acted on this belief. He re-activated his service and donned a uniform in order to participate in the bloody forced expulsion of Jewish families brutally torn from their homes, schuls and livelihood in Gaza. Oren continues to demonstrate his support for Israel's suicide in radio interviews.
Australia's ABC radio
To hell with Michael Oren.
If nothing else, the Gaza withdrawal has proven that there is to be NO PEACE. No matter what Israel does.
EVER.
As long as the Palestinian peoples themselves retain and elect the govt's they have as an expression of free will on their part.
A religious war of the peoples.
Oren is CORRECT about straight line demographic projections leaving Israel with a losing public relations problem.
He is NOT talking about peace.
""Peace as a solution is not a question of next week but a generational issue"
More...
"I may be the last of the standing unilateralists," he said. "The only thing that can save Israel as a Jewish state is by unilaterally withdrawing our settlements from the West Bank," and waiting for a new Palestinian leadership."
How can you argue with that?
He is NOT talking about military security, but a political PERCEPTION
The inarguable facts are .. if nothing changes, Israel+West Bank+Gaza WILL BE a majority muslim state in the next generation.
Israel MUST find a way to administer those areas differently from 1967 Israel POLITICALLY. If they administer it AS ISRAEL it's a LOSER.
THEY HAVE TO
Good luck with that. Submission to coersive demographic jihad be it in Israel, Sweden, Kashmir or wherever it is currently taking place - is nothing short of cultural suicide. I'll have none of it.
Suicide by demographic jihad or population exchange as with the Sudeten Germans of Czechoslovakia under the Benes decree
Then again, there is always the third option - let the Islamic sore fester and further infect Jewish land while diplomatic failure after failure ensures all bloody hell explodes like ebola in a bloody carcass.
Obama and Clinton opt for the latter. I opt for Benes/am Israel chai.
Lan Astaslem.
Islam=no peace
Peace=no Islam
"Peace=no Islam" solves nothing real.
If we reject the idea that majority in a democracy is meaningful, what do we have?
The Arabs MUST be in a non-israel administrative solution.
This should be a serious not dismissive discussion.
We have the losers of multiple wars of annihilation out reproducing the winners, who are the people who were supposed to be annihilated.
These losers are PROPERLY in an occupied zone.
Even TRANSFER as an ultimate threat is better than the status quo. Transfer is the ultimate answer to a barbaric society's perpetual desire to eliminate the people they cannot beat. 'We will ship you AWAY into the desert if you will never make peace'
Has any nation ever faced a situation like this before?
Israel must come up with an answer. It's one thing to build contiguous apartments and expand homes .. it's another to allow the discussion to be dominated by those who wish religious genocide because they have one of the highest reproductive rates in the world, and South Africa's example is the paragon of modern anathema.
"If we reject the idea that majority in a democracy is meaningful, what do we have?"
The only meaning 'democracy' has to Islam is it's use as a tool to undermine those who embrace 'democracy'.
"The Arabs MUST be in a non-israel administrative solution."
Ahhh, 57 Islamic nations isn't big enough for you either, huh?
Land never brought peace to Islam, never will. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Excuse me, but I am looking for a way for Israel to become something OTHER than a permanent garrison state.
Do you believe that such a state can survive?
Can every generation hold the same zeal and purpose?
Do you understand what transfer means?
You know, Alex there was a time when I used to think of Hussein of Jordan as a putz.
One look at the West Bank and I start thinking that when LBJ secretly told him in 1967, that if he would stay out the war, the Israelis would not attack Jerusalem or the West Bank, he must have said 3 hosannas and attacked, knowing they would be defeated and the Jews would then have to deal with the Palestinians instead of him
By the way Alex, I'm sure you know the fable of the scorpion hitching a ride across the swiftly flowing deep river on the back of the frog.
Israel is the frog.
They don't care if it's the Ottoman empire or tents under Umar
Epaminondas,
You mentioned Hussi...
I was posted in Jericho when His Majesty slaughtered his brothers the Palestinians in 'Black September'. I gave water and cigarettes to those who managed to cross the Jordan river and reach IDF's location ( which they knew in advance!...).
One of the lucky guys who spoke perfect English, said to me:-
" I wish we had the Israelis as our enemy!"... (The poor guy had shot wound in his ass...).
Yes, I know the story about the frog...
Alex.
.
Epa said: If nothing else, the Gaza withdrawal has proven that there is to be NO PEACE. No matter what Israel does. EVER.
I say: I agree with that absolutely.
I don't understand how it is that post-Gaza anyone in their right mind can expect peace from the Palestinians, or negotiations from Israel.
It does not compute.
I can only ascertain that most people do not retain any information from historical events.
By the way, I tend to think of the West Bank and Gaza as the Palestinian territories.
I do NOT think of them as Israel.
Israel administers them, because the Palestinians have PROVEN themselves to be completely incapable of taking care of themselves.
Israel, as far as I am concerned, takes care of the Palestinians because Israel is NOT A MURDEROUS STATE. Instead, they are a decent state.
Egypt admitted recently that 97% of Palestinian supplies goes across the Israeli border, NOT ACROSS THE EGYPTIAN BORDER.
This is because Arabs do not, ultimately, care about Arabs. They care only about Islam. So, the Palestinian people can be damned as far as Egypt is concerned.
And meanwhile, Israel takes care of them.
Anyone who buys the "apartheid" argument is a god damned fool, in my opinion.
The Israelis should never give another inch.
Gaza was the last inch.
Never again.
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