Avenging Apostate...I understand your position and respect your switch toI don't believe in being politically correct. Or changing something because somebody else might get offended. But I was unaware of these things that Michael Travis brough to my attention. I put up an Israeli flag as the image for my profile not just because Muslims hate Israel but because I support Israel with all my heart. And if Bush, or anyone for that matter, is in any way against Israel, well they can forget about my support.
Christianity.
I am Israeli....and suffered greatly from GWB's actions. I watched as a neighbour girl was blown up a few meters from me. I was one of the first on the scene when the Dolphinarium disco was attacked and dozens of innocent kids were murdered..........Bush's initial response to those incidents was and angry "No, that is not terrorism"! HE spoke on camera and off the cuff. Of course after consultation he denounced the attacks...using the same words as Arafat. Very sincere.
I can also never forget the promises to the Arabs in Egypt, Morroco, and Spain made by Colin Powell...."All options are on the table" (With regard to "Military
intervention" or bombing Israel to make us accept the unacceptable.)
So that post of mine will be taken down and I want to sincerely apologize to Michael Travis for putting up that post in the first place.
27 comments:
You must know this guy personally, IBA, for you to accept, just 'cos he says so, that Pres. Bush was responsible in some way for the explosion that killed a little girl in his neighbourhood.
I'm guessing that this is Rahm Emanuel in drag, justifying Barry-boy's stupidity comment by saying that Pres. Bush also said something stupid, once!
If I may appropriate a line of reasoning from our cuckoo liberal friends--one EXPECTED GWB to say stupid things, but even the MOST STUPID things that barry-boy says are ex-cathedra (teaching moments)
Put the post back! Fuck his faux feelings!
I don't believe in censorship, it's enough that most folks on IBA allow uncensored rebuttals such as this. Honesty is everything.
As for "el"...shut the fuck up, you ignorant ass-licker. Your boy Bushki (The Hero of Islam, Godfather of Bailouts) squandered his Administration, and America's wealth and blood, on Arab Islam.
My love and admiration for Barry Sortero is aptly illustrated on the pages of thelastcrusade.org
AA-as a Christian -it made me angry that Bush cow-towed to the Saudis--His Christianity had no-thing to do with that...
In fact--Christians are being persecuted in that region and no administration or group is interceding...
See why I trust no human totally?!...
I say leave your post up it...PC on any side is dangerous....However -it is your post to do with as you wish...
C-CS
That must be somebody's dick up your arse that got you this discombobulated, Mikey!
I'm guessing it's your faux buddy with his faux stories!
As for you, just FOH! In Jewish FEH!
Be honest! If it weren't for me you wouldn't have anyone to write to, since nobody else writes to you!
One comment, mine, on your "heart-felt" mea culpa. People really really hate dishonesty like yours!
Really, I'm just being kind to a lonely little chap. Don't start thinking that I'm gonna patronise you for more than a day!
Once this day is done I'll stop flogging your dishonesty and let you go back to sitting in your lonely, isolated corner, wearing your dunce's cap and sucking your thumb, as we all know you've been doing lo these meny years.
Now go to your room and don't come out again until you've grown up!
Ah, GWB... His picture is next to the definition of "ambivalent" in the dictionary, I think.
I understand Mr. Travis's complaint - both Bush administrations were "pro-Israel," certainly, but they did give credence to this insidious belief that if Israel gave up just one more thing - well, then there would be peace.
OTOH, I believe their beliefs were informed by both a desire to appease the Arabs/Muslims and to see real peace and security for Israel.
I can understand that, because I hoped for the same thing.
But when there were never-ending, heartrending clips of Israel forcibly dispossessing Israeli citizens of their property in Gaza, when Israel practically tore its own society in two to put some real skin in the game, when they showed the utmost goodwill toward the "peace process" by using their own military against their own citizens and then, for their sacrifice got NOT ONE BIT OF INTERNATIONAL GOODWILL, but, rather, got a virulent Islamist state next door with all the usual pest-hole accoutrements (including constant shelling), WELL, that was it for me.
And it should have been IT for the West. At that point, there SHOULD have been a united front with all of us who have been propping up the vicious thugs saying: "Recognize Israel NOW or it is over. No more money, no more talks of "legitimacy," no more nuthin'."
But we acted like Israel had actually taken MORE LAND!! We kept pressuring ISRAEL to give up EVEN MORE!! This is like the EMTs showing up at an attempted suicide scene and berating the guy for not cutting deep enough.
This is why I agree that Bush did have balls, but why I also understand Mr. Travis's reaction.
I guess I'm ambivalent too.
The current administration seems to think that Israel's very existence is the problem, though.
I don't feel much ambivalence about that.
Ro
el --
Go away.
And don't return.
You still skulking around, Midnite?
Why are you defending a coward who says he is an honest man (the worst kind of coward!) writes a truthful piece about a man he admires, George Bush, and then takes it down because a friend of his objected on the flimsy grounds that one of his friends had been hurt by something GWB said?
Where's the honesty? Show me the courage? Why throw out the innocent babe (me) with the dirty bathwater (yours)?
I pity you poor fools who wear coats that can be turned inside out at a whim. So go to hell, sit on some hot coals and then you shall know what truth, honesty and courage are really about!
Skulking?
I'm defending neither AA nor Michael here.
Your points can be made without personal insults. And would be welcome as such.
But as is you're just coming off as ignorant loud-mouthed fool.
Just finishing what the schmuck here started!
Just take a look at my first post and his reply!
"Oooh I'm such an honest guy!"
"Ooh I really feel my buddy's pain!"
"OOh I'm taking back everything I wrote a day after I wrote it!"
Namby-pamby, wishy-washy, lily-livered yellow-bellied coward!
And I´m outta here!
Actually, AA never responded to you at all. Michael did, who AA was apologizing to.
But don't let facts get in the way and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Well, that was weird.
Ro
That's an understatement.
Alright, a question, who the crap is El?
Another thing, I don't even know who Michael Travis is. He did however remind me of Bush administration's appeasement of Saudi Arabia and other Muslims (HINT: Censorship of pages in the 9/11 commission report that talked about Saudi involvement in 9/11 and refusing to call Arafat a terrorist).
And for everybody out there who has any problem with me taking down the post I posted earlier. Well, I can do however I please with what I write. So stop whining about it.
I don't believe in being politically correct as I have said before but I also don't believe in supporting someone who has been anti Israel. My taking down the post had nothing to do with either political correctness or censorship. You can watch Bush's comments still over at youtube but I took my post down because I don't want to support a guy through my articles who, at times, sounded exactly like this moron Hussein!
Yes, I think Bush was courageous at times but Bush was again a politician. We have been discussing Hussein Obama so much lately that all I have remembered of Bush is his stand for America right after 9/11 and his support for Israel when Americans walked out of the racist Durban conference.
However, I had forgotten about him saying, "Islam is a religion of peace that has been hijacked by extremists", "we believe in the same God", "Arafat is not a terrorist" and "Israel should stop the settlement work...in the same way Palestinains should stop the suicide bombings" (he said this in 2004 at the UN). Anyone that compares ISraeli settlements to Palestinaina suicide bombings is not in his right mind and the last thing I would do is praise him!
So I stand by me taking down my post and no it does not mean I support the cancer that is Hussein Obama. I just don't want to praise Bush by putting up his video.
So anyone out there that feels like cussing and feels like telling me to change what I have done, well, give me a reason. I actually did go out and did research on what Michael Travis said and most of it stands. I still haven't been able to find a reference about Bush refusing to call the bombing terrorism. If Michael Travis is proven wrong, I Will put that up also until then though, my post remains off as it is right now.
Oh and another thing El. Don't feel like you have any right to tell me what to do!
Yes, Avenging Apostate, the GWB second term in particular, I believe, was really hard on Israel. "Hey, let's have an election in the pest hole that used to be a thriving Jewish settlement and is now an anarchic terrorist swamp!" Ooops.
On Christian websites they advertise a book called, I think, something like "Betrayal, the Plan to Divide Jerusalem." It has GWB on the cover.
So much of what BHO is doing is the logical extension of many of the Bush policies w/r/t the ME.
Y'know, I wonder if McCain woulda been that kind of RINO socialist lite on Israel? Somehow, even though he was pretty statist on domestic matters, I think he would have been a much more stalwart defender of Israel than either of the Bushes or Clinton.
We'll never know, but sometimes I do wonder.
Ro
I'm with Ro. That WAS weird. That was really weird. I seem to recall El posting here previously, but I'd swear he was friendly back then.
Michael,
Did you punch El out in a bar once, or something?
Pastorius, love your bass-playing!
I'm really a friendly guy, who doesn't fight with anyone except self-congratulating hypocrites!
AA wrote a piece praising GWB. Somebody AA doesn't know writes in and says that GWB said something once that was insensitive to a friend of AA's anonymous correspondent.
In a flash Pres. Bush, a good and steadfast man and friend of Israel is under the bus ON THE WORD OF AN "ISRAELI"! G-d knows there are enough of them who said and will say anything to demean GWB. And AA bought the whole spiel. GWB? yesterday a man with balls; today a lickspittle appeaser!
That's fine too; but my beef is NOT with anyone but the owner of this site. OK, you felt bad; you wrote an op-ed praising an undeserving man, had your mistake pointed out, and quickly took it down. Enough Already. You did the right thing. Kudos!
But NO! you had to milk it! You had to tell the world "Look at me! I'm so Sensitive to the feelings of anonymous people twice removed! Aren't I worthy to be visited, please, please, pretty please!"
Hypocrisy, thy name is AA!
And yes, I used to visit and say very kind things about AA all the time during the Election Campaign of 2008, so it is not without some misgivings that I first wrote pointing out the cowardice in the treatment of Pres. Bush. and then Boom, I get "STFU, El" thrown at me.
Hey, I trained in the Jewish Academy of INSULTs--Giving and taking DEPT!
El,
I am actually the Administrator/Founder of this site.
Avenging Apostate is a contributor.
He is responsible for his own posts. In the history of IBA, I have only censored one blogger, and that was because he threatened a public official.
I happen to disagree with Michael Travis that Bush is a Saudi Apologist. Instead, I think Bush is a politician. He has to balance interests. The United States attempted to run a moral policy with regards to who we buy oil from. We stopped buying from Iran in 1979. We stopped buying from Iraq in 1991. That made Saudi Arabia MORE important to us.
Bush, like every other President in the past 30 years, courted the Saudis.
He attacked Iraq, in part, because of oil. IN PART, not in total.
It helps free us up on the oil market.
Meanwhile, we're having trouble with Venezuela and Sudan and other oil-producing nations.
Our "moral" policy kills us.
All in all, from what I can tell, Bush was more on the side of Israel than any President in the history of the United States, except maybe Reagan.
But, Michael is right on one thing. Bush, in calling Islam a "Religion of Peace", did more to promote Islam than any non-Muslim in history.
However, I think Bush made that statement, not because he believed it, but because he thought it was necessary considering the fact that our country has many citizens who are Muslim, and he did not want to alienate them.
Additionally, I think Bush believed that, if he praised Islam, especially those Muslims who are peaceful, he would be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.
He was mistaken in that policy, in my opinion.
My opinion is, the way to separate the good Muslims from the bad is legally ban the elements of Islam which do not go along with our laws. This would mean banning the preaching of Jihad and strict Sharia law (women worth half that of men, stoning of adulterers, apostates, and gays). In fact, I think the preaching of Jihad and Sharia ought to be considered a treasonous act, punishable by death or deportation to a Sharia state of the Muslims choice.
This kind of policy would separate the wheat from the chaff because it would anger all the bad Muslims. In angering them, it would bring them out into the open, and then we would know what and who we are dealing with.
And, we start deporting those people as well.
So, that's what I think. I'm guessing AA agrees with me. I don't know what Michael thinks of my opinion. He can chime in on his own.
As for your comment that your gardener is Jewish, that sounded like an attempt at a kind of racist joke. That alienates me, frankly. It makes you sound like an asshole.
You are free to be an asshole here if that's what you want to be.
And yes, I used to visit and say very kind things about AA all the time during the Election Campaign of 2008
I wasn't blogging in 2008. I didn't cover anything on the election campaign 2008.
Pastorius,
I have no idea why El's got such a big problem with me taking down that post. IT IS MY POST, I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT AND NO, IBLOGA IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR IT! I did look into most but not all of what Michael Tracis said and that's when I took down my post. I have made it clear already that I don't want to praise a guy who has been no different than any other politician or not a lot different.
Personally GWB could be a very standup guy but I wouldn't know about it. I am judging him according to his policies. I am sure he had different opinions than what he said out in public but that's the problem, at the end of the day, that's all he was, a politician.
As I have said, yes, he was courageous at times but just because he said something to appease some people and changed his tone about Israel, he loses my respect.
I apologized to Michael because of a very personal reason of mine and that is that I used to hate the Jews and wanted to see all Israelis dead. After coming to Christ I vowed to support Israelis and Jews and fight for their survival as much as was possible for me and that's what I am doing!
This is my opinion, my post, my decision to put up and delete those posts.
Oh as for your comment about the bad getting mad and out in the open, I agree with you but I also think that you will be surprised to see way more bad than you ever imagined!
Oh and another thing. The society that I am fighting for is tolerant toward difference in opinion! Not violence or cussing if someone does something that you don't like. El is acting like those Muslims out there that when something happens that they don't like, they start yelling and cussing and blowing things up!
Last time I checked, that wasn't the western society I know. Apart from that, everyone is free to say or do what they want even cuss at people if they don't like what they do! However, El, when you flaunt yourself around like you are the greatest thing after sliced bread, you come across as a joke!
Oh and just so we are clear, I DON'T CARE IF YOU READ WHAT I WRITE OR NOT!
AA,
I can understand your reason for wanting to apologize to Michael. Michael is a good guy too. I don't like to disagree with him, but I do disagree with him on his stance on Bush.
Bush was not perfect, but he was better than Obama, though Michael would seem to deny that.
As for me being surprised at how many bad Muslims there might be, heh, don't count on it.
I don't think I'd be surprised.
:)
The point is to lay the cards out on the table and then let the people of the Western world start making some informed decisions.
Western culture is a culture of Freedom. When people are Free, they are Free to be good or bad.
We are, for that reason, a more unruly culture than most.
It is no surprise that El would come on here and get extremely angry over something so, seemingly, small. He's free to express his opinion here, so he does.
It is a bit weird though.
;-)
Bush was not perfect, but he was better than Obama, though Michael would seem to deny that.
I agree with that.
Western culture is a culture of Freedom. When people are Free, they are Free to be good or bad.
I agree with that also. And for that reason, I don't think any of these comments should be deleted. All I did was deleted my post because I didn't want that to be my opinion anymore. Anyway, I agree with you on all that you said.
As for me being surprised at how many bad Muslims there might be, heh, don't count on it.
I don't think I'd be surprised.
Don't know what to say, except that I am really glad! As for the west officially making some informed decisions, it might be just me but I think the west seems to be wanting to stay in the darkness and when I say that I just mean the governments. Rest of the population though might be a different story.
I know I sound like a Pollyanna sometimes, cuz I say I believe there are decent Muslims out there, but I also recognize the fact that the decent human beings who identify as Muslims never actually stand up to the Jihadists in their midst.
I live near the Mosque where Adam Gadahn was "radicalized." I live near UCI. I live near the Anaheim Islamic community. There's never a peep out of those Muslims about any of the evil their communities have bred.
I've been in the subways in London where the 7/7 bombings occurred. Those subways on any given day were filled with Muslims.
Filled with Muslims.
Does that give you any hint on what I believe about how I might feel?
A.A. -- only one comment was delted that went extrordinarily beyond the pale for being foul rude & unnecessary.
(if I, of all people, thought so, it must have been)
Otherwise we let ignorance and rudeness stand for all to see.
Pastorius,
That does help me in understanding your position better. I guess I have misunderstood your view a lot on this particular issue.
MR,
I understand your move to delete the comment. I was just saying I wouldn'd delete someone else's comment on my post if I disagreed with it. I would however delete my post if I disagreed with it.
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