Sunday, November 05, 2006

Santiago And The Moors Are At It Again

From my good friend Blueslord, at Toasted Bread:

There is a very important legend in Spanish Medieval History related to Santiago Matamoros (Santiago Kill-the-Moors). In the battle of Clavijo, it is said to have appeared and have helped the Christian Castillians against the Muslims to achieve victory. Since then, a lot of Spanish Catholic churches have contained portraits or sculptures of the Saint riding a horse and with a sword in his right hand, in a not very multicultural way. Santiago is also the Spanish Patron.

So the Islamist threats have ended calling for the dissapearance of these traditional Spanish figures. Last one has been the portrait in the Chruch at Ortexa (found at Al otro lado de la Galaxia).

The neighbours at Ortexa are totally opposed to a possible displacement of the image that the Church of San Jaime has in its altar, a Santiago Apostle, as asked by a alleged Muslim citizen in a letter sent to the Major, Vicente Llinares Sellés.In that letter, signed by Hasán Alí ben Zayyán ben Ibrahim and received by the Major’s office last Monday, the portrait is considered as “offensive to Islam” because the Saint is on horseback and over a Muslim.

“That image is not favouring the dialogue between us, the believers of the sacred religion preeched by Mohammed and you, the believers of Jesus, who is also considered by us as a great profet, the second after Mohammed” the letter says.

That is why he asks for the image “to be put away from the altar and changed for other more respectful”. If that’s not accomplished, the sender says “we will think it is a direct attack to Islam similar to the irreverent cartoons that the anti-Muslim Infidels made of our Saint Profet. Just reflect over all this“, it continues.

But the Major does not fear these menaces, and has diminish the importance of it, considering that it is not very serious. The Socialist Vicente Llinares considers that is a consequence of the polemic that surrounds the Moors and Christians’ holidays, whose elimination has been demanded by some Muslim representative.

“I do not see anything offensive in the image of Santiago Apostle, an sculpture that has been here, between us, all our lives. If it would be my own decision I would never take it off. A lot of other villages have similar images“, he says. “In fact, the Church of the near-by village of Relleu, has the same image. But the decision depends of the Bishop, as the Major says. Yesterday he did not make any statement on the issue.

But the menaces and demands of Hasán Alí ben Zayyán ben Ibrahim have provoked a deep bad feeling in the neighbours if this little village of the Marina Baixa. “This image has been in this church all our lives, When we were born, it was there. We do not like that someone coming from abroad tells us what to do. We would not like it to be taken away“, they say.

With only 800 inhabitants and a great number of foreign people, Ortexa is a very quiet village where “people from here with foreign one, and there is no racism nor xenophobia. We all respect and love our Catholic Priest, Juan, who comes from Ruanda. This is a good proof of what we say”, they continue.

A little over a month back there was a story out of Spain that Spaniards were putting a stop to the traditional celebration of the Reconquista (the expulsion of the Muslims from Spain in 1492) in which villages across Spain would burn Mohammed in effigy.

Clearly, many Spaniards are willing to forget their history and let the Moors take over again. Where is the spirit of Santiago?


KG said...

I put part of this up at Crusader Rabbit.
If the letter is a joke it falls rather flat--we're so far down this track it's getting hard to separate irony from reality.

mts said...

They are offended. I mean, really. Don't muslims have anything else to hang their hats on besides this emotion? I can be offended a minimum of ten times a day if I bothered to look at how many times either Christians, or Christianity in general, are either made fun of, or portrayed in a threatening or demeaning manner.

And the audacity of asking US what the heck we want to display in OUR churches? Next thing they'll be offended at the colors the walls are painted, or the fact that Christian churches ring bells. I believe I read in a Robert Spencer book that Christian churches in muslim countries aren't allowed to ring their bells, since there is a possibility that a muslim might be offended by that blatant, public display of Christianity.

But I'll tell you what. I'm a giving sort of person who knows the value of compromise. I say we eliminate all of the depictions of Santiago Matamoros, but first, muslims have to a) withdraw from the lands they conquered by the sword - yup, Egypt, Syria, Byzantium, Persia, India, etc., b) change their mosques to our liking (since they love to boss us on how to decorate ours) - open-air (no walls), with microphones and speakers everywhere so we kafir can see and hear every rancid thing they say about us, and c) allow, without the risk of harm, objective study and investigation by all of the "-ologies" and sciences that have had the pleasure of picking at Christianity for 400 years.

400 years of the objective study of islam, mohammed, and the origin of allah? I doubt it could withstand a 20 minute segment on Penn & Teller's show "Bulls [clap] hit!".

Kiddo said...

What the hell is going on in the Mother Country of so many in the Western Hemisphere? I mean seriously, the machismo attitude of Latin America didn't arise out of the colonizing efforts of the English, Dutch or other Northern Europeans. It's all south of the US border and in Hispanic communities here. This attitude reigns supreme in so many different communities in this hemisphere, why does Spain itself seem to be fading in the cajones factor? It was set apart from the rest of Europe for so long, yet the same weaknesses seem to be showing.

I'm just asking. I want to learn more about Spain, and stories like this are making me want to learn more as fast as I can.

von Schlichtningen said...

I say take the gloves of. The Church should write a manifest on Islam and publish it in every Christian church in the world. A few key points:

1) Muhammad is no prophet
2) Islam preaches more war than peace
3) Co-existence with Islam is dangerous
4) As you read this, Christians are being killed by Islamists

mahdihotline said...

What the hell are muslims doing in a church anyway? Looking for something to be offended by? Their sheer arrogance is stupifying.

Pastorius said...

Von Schlicht,
I like your proposal. Why is it we never really fight back? The most we ever do is say, "Well, that's the way we do things."

Kiddo said...

von Sclicht, agreed. The Church needs to take a stand. The quran is a DIRECT insult to Christianity, as is the "profession of faith". We need to come out and say flat out that we recognize this as the GREATEST heresy based on the actions of a false prophet.

Jews, similarly. Why no statements directly attacking the Muslim claims of prophethood and status as "muslims" of all of the past prophets? This insults Jewish belief as well. Not to mention the massive "deity-grab" that Mo pulled that continues to this day. What, the Muslims will hate Jews for such a statement? What else is new? Nothing to lose by both religions showing pride in ourselves, especially to a group of people who only respect displays of strength and pride.

Mahdi--Yes, perfect question. I was wondering the same thing. Love your name, BTW. But what ARE they doing in the Churches that they AREN'T squatting in anyway? Are they being advised by the ACLU under the table or something? Egads.

Anonymous said...

Hehe...the holy religion of islam. Well, in Europe the holy religion is christianity, but looks like nobody dare to remember.
Here is "hacking" Europe, muslims are visitors here, so take note: Christianity is holy in Europe, as islam is holy in Mecca. Dont like the idea ? Go back from where you came.
We are stupids, because we accept all this shit. Looks like in the west there is no mans with balls. In Romania next year start building biggest christian cathedral ever builded. Inside the cathedral 10.000 people can enjoy the christian holydays. West people, remember: you are today what you are because of the history. And in history there was no place for this stupid thing with multi-culti. Nationalism made Germany to be Germany, UK to be UK and Denmark to be Denmark. We try to keep dogs in pure bread...why ? They must also have the right of multi-culti.
I'm a little nervous because of all the news that show stupidity. Sorry for the language.

Pastorius said...

You express yourself well, my friend. And Romania's history with Islam has some real lessons for us today.

I understand why you are nervous, but I'm telling you, we are going to win. It will not be pretty, but we will win.

Anonymous said...

Pastorius, here is not about we will win, here is about why do we have to win, to fight ? We are in our homes, our lands. How is it posible that some creatures come in our homes and lands, demanding what to do and how to live ? In my house I made the rules. Dont like it ? The door is open...just goooooo. And if you dare to show again at my door, then I will find a big gun. Why we dont demand that at Mecca to be granted access also for christians ? They shit in our churches, I want also to shit in Mecca. This is political correct, is it ? As long they deny everybody to step in Mecca, we must have the same atitude. If not, we can see how things are going today. And they stink. Maybe after 50 years of wild communism in Romania and all the hard life because of the big brother-USSR, we learned to not be so open minded to all political correct shit. Who the hack invented that stupid thing with "we are all equal" ? We are not !!! What is the salary of Bush ? What is his IQ ? I'm inteligent and good looking european male. 75% of immigrants from muslim countries are analfabets and ugly. So, how can I consider myself equal with those monkeys ? Lets get real. I create software, they dont know what a transistor is. Who the hack invented that stupidity ? And I must also support them from my money. God, I'm angry. Sorry.

Pastorius said...

Well, I understand your anger, but I hope you don't mind me saying you made me laugh.

It is pretty funny that people around the world want to criticize the West for our "abuse of resources", and yet, they do nothing with the resources at their disposal, and want to buy all our products made with the resources we are supposedly abusing.

Anonymous said...

Now I also laugh on me, when I re-read. I was angry. Something must be done, until is not to late. Hope the brothers in the west will open their eyes.

Pastorius said...

I think people will wake up when they see thousands lying dead in the streets.

Anonymous said...

You scare me, Pastorius. Do you realy think that people in the west are so chicken, so blind, so frozen ? Only thousands of dead people can wake up those people ? I cant believe that. If this is true, then is bad.

Pastorius said...

You're from Spain, right? Look what hundreds of dead did in your country. Spain didn't wake up after the train bombings. And, much of America has not woken up after 9/11.

My opinion is, one has to understand the intent behind what the Muslims do when they attack us. What I say on 9/11 was this:

A group of Muslim maniacs almost completely lacking in sophistication did whatever they could to kill as many of us as they possibly could.

The lesson I learned from that was that, if they had nukes, they would kill us all.

Many other people see attacks like 9/11 this way:

"Well, it was bad, but after all, only 3000 of us died. More people die in car crashes every year."

That's true, but it doesn't attempt to understand the intent.

Much of my family lives in England. One family member called me after the London bombings and said the following,

"You know, you Americans get so worked up over terrorism. We don't because we have been through it before. The IRA did this to us also."

Once again, he is completely ignoring the intent of the Muslims. He is ignoring the fact that the French uncovered a plot to release Ricin in the chunnel.

You see what I mean?

I believe the intent of the Muslim maniacs will only become clear to the West when the maniacs have finally hit us with the ultimate weapon. I don't think even a dirty bomb would do the trick.

Anonymous said...

No, I'm not from Spain. But I got your point.

Anonymous said...

Blogger suddenly gave me a link to your blog about Santiago Matamoros - 7 months after the original post.
So, here is the final irony.
Jacob the fisherman (Sant' Iago/Saint James St Jacques etc etc) evolved into the archetypal hero of Western culture. From Sant’Iago Matamoros (Moor Slayer)to Sant’Iago Mataespañois (Spanish Slayer) to Sant’Iago Mataindios (Indian Slayer) everyone wanted him as their hero!
In Mexico City there is a carving from the altarpiece of the Church of Santiago Tlatelolco showing him as Santiago Mataindios - the Indian-slayer.
And although Christianity and the Catholic religion were taken to the Americas by the Spaniards, when Mexico fought to obtain its independence from Spain in 1810, it used as its flag the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and Sant’ Iago was exalted as Santiago Mataespañois - the slayer of Spaniards! (Double crossing infidel!)

There is a mid-19thC silver statue of Santiago Mataespañois in the Museum of Pilgrimages in Santiago de Compostela.

and another one – scroll down to under Ano 1998 - (as well as pictures of items from the museum) here:

You can see the altarpiece of Santiago Mataindios here (click on the photo to enlarge it)

You can see paintings of Santiago Matamoros and Mataindios together here:

In Peru, during an indigenous uprising in 19th-century they adopted Santiago as their champion, using the "Matamoros" iconography of “Santiago Mataespañois” that in Peru had come to be associated with a pre-Columbian deity who drove out evil forces.
Some of Peru’s most interesting (and most frequent) festivals are found in the Mantaro Valley. During the Festival de Apóstol Santiago on July 25, villagers throughout the Mantaro Valley brand their livestock amid much dancing and drinking of chicha, or fermented corn beer. Though Christian on the surface, this pre-Hispanic ritual invokes the protection of Andean deities.
There - now go tell the Islamic world that old Santiago changed sides hundreds of years ago and started slaying the Spaniards anyway so the joke is on them!