Let me know what you think.
It doesn't seem honest to me.
There are multiple questions the video does not really answer.
What is the percentage of Islamic immigrants in Europe vs. non-Muslim immigrants?
What is the percentage of Muslims in major European cities vs. the outlying cities?
What is the Muslim birthrate per Muslim male in Europe?
What is the native Christian birthrate per native European Christian male in Europe?
And, those unanswered questions are just the beginning. I'm sure you can come up with more.
16 comments:
You're Welcome Pastorius,
I hope they are correct. I don't want any western state to fall to the Islamic hoard.
The BBC is a Eurabian propaganda mouthpiece. See links under 'BBC
- censorship, bias, omissions, distortions, smears, cowardice, dhimmitude, taqiyya, da'wa, Eurabian propaganda and lies, lies, lies...' at http://kwelos.tripod.com/subjects.htm
The only real defense against the stats I have ever seen (a la Steyn), is that just because the birth, death and immigration rates make one indication clear today, is not a complete picture of all that might intervene before tomorrow.
I can also envision a situation where those looking to find a statistical argument for their political viewpoint easily can construct one.
But is Mark Steyn the global warming statistician for muslim demographics?
Stats are an INDICATION.
But in this argument about rates rising ... WHO IS RESPONSIBLE IN THESE NATIONS FOR THAT INCREASE?
The birth rate in Morocco is 2.38. Fine, but the promise of future lives for children in Morocco is not what it is in France, or Britain, is it?
Worse still the birth rates sited NEVER APPROACH DEATH REPLACEMENT RATE, even being unable to distinguish one group's rates form another.
The indicators are clear, to me, and we are arguing only over the rates and speed with which things change.
I think that the video the BBC is questioning did exaggerate Muslim numbers, immigration rates and birthrates.
But it's hard to get exact numbers of religious believers of any faith because a substantial percentage of people refuse to answer that question on the census (15% - 20% in Canada).
Here are the numbers of Muslims in the Netherlands by year, taken from Wilders' film "Fitna":
1909 - 54 Muslims in NL
1960 - 1399
1990 - 458,000
2004 - 944,000
So the number of Muslims in NL more than doubled in just 14 years by 2004, when the total population of NL was about 16 million. If anything this would be an undercount, not counting illegal aliens, Muslims who refuse to declare their religion to census-takers, and secular Muslims (who may have believing Muslim children - not uncommon).
Let's say this Muslim-doubling-every-14-years pattern holds. By 2018 there will be 2 million, 2032 4 million, 2046 8 million Muslims.
Let's also say that the non-Muslim pop. of NL, with its rock-bottom birthrates and non-Muslim emigration matching or exceeding non-Muslim immigration, declines by 1 million every 14 years (it will probably decline less in the near future but accelerate as time goes on). By 2046, the non-Muslim pop. of NL will be about 12 million, down from 15 million in 2004.
So in this very rough and probably conservative estimate, Muslims will make up 40% of NL's pop. by 2046.
But this population won't be evenly divided throughout NL: Muslims will be large majorities in the big cities like Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague, Utrecht, Eindhoven, etc., helped along by the already-observable phenomenon of white flight.
In the smaller towns and countryside, Muslims will probably remain a small minority, leading to, in effect, two nations in one: An urban NL of mainly brown Muslims and a suburban, small town and rural NL of mainly white non-Muslims.
So this is the future, extrapolated across Europe, that the BBC tells us to not worry and be happy about. I predict civil war, unless of course Muslim immigration is stopped and emigration encouraged. That's why it's so important to support the only political parties committed to the latter course, like Wilders' PVV and the Vlaams Belang.
Jeppo points out:
it's hard to get exact numbers of religious believers of any faith because a substantial percentage of people refuse to answer that question on the census
IMO, this is a significant observation.
I'm not sure that any stats we see are reliable.
Epa,
You said: Stats are an INDICATION.
But in this argument about rates rising ... WHO IS RESPONSIBLE IN THESE NATIONS FOR THAT INCREASE?
The birth rate in Morocco is 2.38. Fine, but the promise of future lives for children in Morocco is not what it is in France, or Britain, is it?
Worse still the birth rates sited NEVER APPROACH DEATH REPLACEMENT RATE, even being unable to distinguish one group's rates form another.
The indicators are clear, to me, and we are arguing only over the rates and speed with which things change.
I say: All those thoughts occurred to me as well. I think this video is a steaming pile.
Jeppo,
For once, you and I are in almost total agreement.
However, I will note that you point out the color of the Muslims skin.
I don't care what color their skin is.
I work with a man named Labeeb. He is a Christian. He is the nicest, most straight-forward man you could hope to meet.
But, you know what? He has brown-skin.
So, does that mean he is a problem to society, in your opinion?
The problem is the Islamic ideology. When a froup of human beings are infused with that ideology, then a significant portion of that group will be dangerous and anti-Western.
That's the problem.
I really wish you would stop shuffling off into trivialities.
Pasto,
Is a brown-skinned person a problem to society in my opinion? Short answer: No.
The reason I mentioned skin colour along with religion was to emphasize yet another difference between Muslims and native Dutch in NL.
Now this may not matter to you, or even me, but you better believe skin colour matters to lots of Muslims.
Do I need to remind you that the terrorists who raided Mumbai last year were specifically tasked with hunting down and executing white people? Or that Ayman al-Zawahiri called for blacks and Hispanics to rise up against whites in the US? Or that the Bali bombers code-named their intended targets "white meat"?
Just because skin colour or race makes no difference to you, don't discount it so quickly. Some people hate you for your white skin along with your infidel status.
I'm surprised you didn't take me to task for getting my little plug for the VB in at the end of my comment. ;)
BTW, your name came up in a thread at LGF2 this morning. Start at comment #52.
Jeppo,
You said: Now this may not matter to you, or even me, but you better believe skin colour matters to lots of Muslims.
I say: Yes, I believe that is true. The word for black person and the word for slave is the same. That reflects a racism built into Arabic culture. And, I believe a lot of Arab and "Asian" Muslims probably don't much like white people either. But, I really wouldn't know, cuz they've never told me so.
:)
You said: Or that Ayman al-Zawahiri called for blacks and Hispanics to rise up against whites in the US?
I say: I'm not sure if Ayman al-Zawahiri has a problem with white people, or if he is just playing on resentment to split the population of the United States.
The Mumbai thing is another matter, and you are correct on that, I guess. I didn't recall that fact.
You said: I'm surprised you didn't take me to task for getting my little plug for the VB in at the end of my comment. ;)
I say: I hadn't noticed it, but now that you bring it up ...
Truth be told that even if their statistics are correct, this video doesn't completely debunk the idea that Europe is ever going to be an Islamic state. I'm not exactly sure how you could prove that it wouldn't be a thousand years from now without a time machine. I'm not sure how you would prove that a thousand years from now Europe would not Bibobibaanna, without a time machine.
However, like Pastorius said, they leave a few important questions unanswered. For one thing the video does fail to mention what the Muslim immigrant, verses native or non Muslim birth rate is in any European country. Still, if More or Less's figures are correct, it creates some reasonable doubt as to the idea that Europe will be Islamic by the end of this century.
Still, even if the figures in the video are correct, its possible that Europe still has a problem. If the Muslim immigrant birth rate is only slightly higher than that of native population and the rate of Isamitization is much slower, the problem still exists. But maybe it will buy us some more time, and will prevent some people from just giving up all hope and surrendering.
european union is about to formally launch its plan to flood europe with more 50 million immigrants...
Anonymous
You wrote,
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european union is about to formally launch its plan to flood europe with more 50 million immigrants...
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Can you please site your source?
I don't think I ever hear about that plan.
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