Sunday, February 06, 2011

Game Over II: Poll of Egyptians Shows 84% Want Apsotates Stoned to Death

EGYPT: The media tells us the Egyptians are fighting for Democracy. Yes, this will be some Democracy.

84%: Believe apostates should face the death penalty

95%: Say it's good that Islam plays a large role in politics
70%: Are concerned or very concerned about Islamist extremism in the world

We're confusing Mob Rule with Democracy.

When we talk of Democracy we mean a Democratic Republic with a Constitution protecting Human Rights.

If 84% want to stone apostates to death, then DEMOCRACY IS IMPOSSIBLE.
By the way, Egypt is approximately 91% Muslim and 9% Christian. So, if 84% of Egyptians want Apostates stoned to death, that means damned near 100% of Muslims favor the Sharia penalty for conversion.
This is the equivalent of Nazism, folks.
Egypt proves it; Islam is the most retrograde force ever to have been visited upon the Earth. It is the atomic bomb of cultures. It destroys everything it touches. 
An Islamic nation is only good to the extent that the other cultures within it can maintain their own sense of purpose in the withering nuclear aftermath of Allah's manifestation. 
As Pope Benedict quoted at Regensburg, "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman." 
Egypt will not recover until it can be cleansed of the radioactive fallout of Allah and his Sharia.
 From Reuters
59%: Say democracy is preferable to any other form of government.
22%: Say a non-democratic system can be preferable in certain circumstances
Islam in politics
95%: Say it’s good that Islam plays a large role in politics
85%: Say Islam’s influence on politics is good
48%: Say Islam currently play a large role in Egyptian politics
Islamist extremism
80%: Think suicide bombings are never or rarely justified.
20%: Think suicide bombings are sometimes or often justified
70%: Are concerned or very concerned about Islamist extremism in the world
61%: Are concerned or very concerned about Islamist extremism in the Egypt
Traditional Muslim practices
54%: Believe men and women should be segregated in the workplace
82%: Believe adulterers should be stoned
84%: Believe apostates from Islam should face the death penalty
77%: Believe thieves should be flogged or have their hands cut off


Mental Warfare said...

Islam, Muslims and Governance are Incompatible and It Would Be An Insult To Governance if it was brought in the Islamic World. They want Right to Practice their Religion, Preach It, Build Mosques, have the Muslim Personal Law and Sharia in the non Islamic World and Refuse to Adapt, but in the Islamic World they Refuse to Grant such Freedom to non Muslims. Bloody Hypocrites and Religious Supremacists

Anonymous said...

Man! I should move to Egypt. I'm sure they'll welcome me there with arms wide open (and then blow themselves and me up!!!!!)

Always On Watch said...

Mubarak proclaimed shari'a law as the law of the land back in the early 1990s. We should not be surprised that so many Egyptians support shari'a law. They see shari'a as their way of life, and the older Egyptians who lived under more freedom are dying off or ailing.

Throughout the Middle East, there is a young male population -- restive, unemployed, and indoctrinated in shari'a.

Hey, has anyone else noted the lack of American-flag burnings in this uprising in Egypt? What's up with that?

Epaminondas said...

Democracy IS NOT A VOTE.
Alone, that's mob rule.

If the Egyptians get PRECISELY what they want via the pew poll they will have VOLUNTARILY emplaced a shariah govt.

And as I have insisted all along this IS what the people want. And the people of virtually every nation except Israel and India from Mauritania to the Chinese border, and on into the southwest pacific.



Anonymous said...

democracy = mob rule

1 man, 1 vote.

a REPUBLIC (for which it stands) is what our forefathers created and died for.

the Egytians don't want a republic, they want a THEOCRACY, just like in Iran.

Pastorius said...

You're right. Our government, the President, and the Congress, need to have a discussion about the meaning of a Republic vs. the sheer mob rule of a Democracy.

Sadly, this is Bush's fault. He did not ever have this discussion. And, he started us on this "road to ruin" by calling the Gazan elections "Democratic".

What a farce.

Considering who our current President is, I can't imagine we will have such a discussion. He is more ignorant than Bush on this subject, and WILLFULLY SO.

Pastorius said...

You're right. I agree 100%.

Pastorius said...

You pose a very good question. Why no American flag burnings?


Maybe because they feel Obama is on their side?

Anonymous said...

No American flag burnings could very well be a political move. Remember, flags are usually provided by the organizers to burn. Protesters don't go out of their way to spend money to buy flags and then burn them; especially if most of the protesters don't have enough money and don't know where to buy an American flag.

If the MB (or whoever else) start inciting people to burn American flags then that will send a negative picture of the Egyptian mob to the rest of the world. If all they are mad at is Mubarak and his cronies then they don't need to burn AMerican flags. They just need to chant death threats to JEws and ISraelis and that's that. (I mean, it is just commonly accepted these days that the JEws and Israel are evil and need to just, you know, die away or something).

Anyway, I don't see anything unusual in this. Burning American flags is not so good for their image just it. It will come though, just wait. Once they get their Shari'ah run government, it will come (alongwith the Israeli flag).

Anonymous said...

As for the discussion of democracy and republic.

Every Islamic nation that has elections is an Islamic republic. Because their supreme code of law is Shari'ah and they do not deviate from that (or try not to).

Pakistan: Islamic Republic
Iran: Islamic Republic
Turkey: On their way to becoming an Islamic Republic
Afghanistan: Islamic Republic
Iraq: Islamic Republic.

We can argue about the specifics of course but what the war in Iraq and Afghanistan has produced is a mini caliphate because guess what a caliphate is actually supposed to be. AN ISLAMIC REPUBLIC!

Good job Bush!

Silverfiddle said...

I saw the results of that survey last week. This completely invalidates the Muslim Brotherhood question. Who cares? The broad swath of Egyptian citizenry are intolerant bigots and want to be ruled by sharia.

It's their country, who are we to stand in their way.

Epaminondas said...

"It's their country, who are we to stand in their way."

It's not 'who are we' which (IMHO) is the key question (there COULD EXIST a key security need) .. it's 'what are we prepared to do, and it is worth it'?




Always On Watch said...

Pastorius: Why no American flag burnings?


Maybe because they feel Obama is on their side?

That's my guess, too.

I also think that the Muslim Brotherhood expects Obama's full endorsement.

Damien said...

Always On Watch,

They might not be burning American flags for two reasons. One, they don't see America as having anything to do with the Mubarak Regime, or two they're worried about how it looks. If the Muslims Brotherhood is behind this, they maybe encouraging them not to burn American flags, hoping to gain American support, so they can more easily overthrow Mubarak. Than, once they gain power, they'll turn around and stab America in the back.

Damien said...


There's this one libertarian on youtube who goes by the user name, GStolyarovII, who made a video saying that he gives his unconditional support for the Egyptian protesters, and he basically said that although the Muslim Brother maybe involved, for the most part they are just trying to ride the wave of anti Mubarak sentiment.

The Egypt Protests, WikiLeaks, US Foreign Policy, and the Prerequisites of Freedom

However, if this poll is correct about what the average Egyptian wants, it may not matter if the Muslim Brotherhood is playing a major role or not. Its unlikely that Egypt will end up as a liberal democratic republic, or a friend of the united states, after the revolution and it would be naive for us to assume otherwise. I cannot give my unconditional support to their revolution for that reason.

Anonymous said...

Only people that think that Muslims are generally peaceful people but its the governments that force them to take on violence can give these protesters unconditional support.

"Its unlikely that Egypt will end up as a liberal democratic republic, or a friend of the united states."

Exactly. Look, I don't know if there is anyone out there on this blog that thinks that just because Muslim Brotherhood is not playing a part or a major part that somehow should mean that the people of Egypt are going to turn this country into a modern 21st century liberal state...but if there are some here that think that, I suggest you read up on Islam.

Muslims take up arms, rape, murder, kill and pillage not because of their oppressive governments but because of Islam. The only thing surprising in the poll is that 100% of the Muslims don't want apostates killed. That is the only thing I am surprised by.

Everything else, that they want Islam to play a part in politics, that they want Shari'ah sanctioned punishments etc etc is already a given.

Its Muslims that are protesting and its Muslims that want a government of their own. Muslims will create an Islamic government, PERIOD!

Damien said...

Avenging Apostate,

It would be surprising if 100% of Egyptian Muslims wanted apostates killed. I take it that you grow up in a very strict Muslim household. I have a feeling that you don't want your parents to know that you left the faith, and I don't blame you.

I do know for a fact through that there are some ex Muslims out there, whose parents were Muslims as well, and are still Muslims, who don't fear that their parents will try to kill them. In fact, some of them don't have any hatred toward their ex Muslim children. Fortunately, not all Muslims strictly follow the Koran or the Hadith. There have even been a few liberal Muslims who openly oppose sharia.

Anonymous said...

Not a strict household Damien but a truly Muslim society. I am sure there are "Muslims" who are liberal but one thing we need to understand is that Islam is unlike other systems out there.

You can't be a liberal Muslim. Its an oxymoron. Islam does not allow it. We do not define that politico-religious system, the Quran and the hadiths do.

Sure there are people that would call themselves Muslims but aren't just like there are people that call themselves Christians but really don't give a rat's butt what the Bible says.

Another thing is, just being "ex-Muslim" sometimes really cushions the blow compared to when one doesn't just leave Islam but embraces another system of faith. But of course, according to Islam, it doesn't make any difference and both should be killed.

My point with the whole comment though is that even if there are moderate Muslims as many want to claim, they are of no real value and when the majority of their brethren embrace Shari'ah, the so called moderates will too. Either out of fear or pleasure.

Yes, I am one of those people who see no hope in the Islamic culture as it is.

Anonymous said...

Oh as for knowing "ex-Muslims" whose parents don't kill them. I knew such a one. There are a lot of things that go on in a Muslim household. Whatever it was, it is his personal life that he does not want to share.

All I can say is that he went back to Islam just as easily as he had slipped out.

Damien said...

Avenging Apostate,

I never said they were being logically consist.

Damien said...

There are Jews who eat bacon, despite the fact that it goes against Jewish law.

Anonymous said...

I get what you're saying and I am not necessarily disagreeing with you.

What I am trying to say is that those "moderates" will go with the majority of their brethren. You know? The bond of "brotherhood" and "nationhood" in Islam is really strong.

That is all I am saying. In the end, it will always be Muslims against the rest. Whether those Muslims grew up in the west, ate pork or held their hands when their children converted to other religions, they will always go with their Muslim brethren when the time comes.

Pastorius said...

I like you but ...

when you say: It would be surprising if 100% of Egyptian Muslims wanted apostates killed.

you sound ignorant.

I laid it out for you.

1) this is a Pew Poll

2) Egypt is 91% Muslim and 9% Christian

3) 85% of Egyptians want apostates stoned to death.


At what point in the chain of logic do you find a problem?

Damien said...


Its not that I doubt these numbers.
The only thing that I meant was that I would be surprised if it was one hundred percent.

Its almost impossible to get one hundred percent of everyone in a country the size of Egypt to agree on anything. I'm not surprised that a majority believe that apostates deserve to die. Plus I can guarantee you that at least some of the people in Egypt who call themselves Muslims, don't really consider themselves Muslims either, but won't denounce the faith because they fear what will happen to them if they do. Even in Muslim nations that are officially one hundred percent Muslim, I can guarantee you that there are some rare individuals who don't believe in Islam. Also, that's ignoring the heretics, which they also can't get rid of entirely, regardless of brutal they are in trying to wipe them out.

Pastorius said...

You wrote: Its almost impossible to get one hundred percent of everyone in a country the size of Egypt to agree on anything. I'm not surprised that a majority believe that apostates deserve to die.

I respond: You're right. It's not 100%.

Egypt has a population of 78 million people.

Of that, 91% are Muslim. That is 71 million Muslims in Egypt.

Of the 78 million people in Egypt, 84% of them believe in stoning apostates to death.

That means 65.52 million people believe in stoning apostates to death.

65.52 million is .923 of 70.98 million muslims.

That means 92% of Muslims believe in stoning apostates to death.

Pastorius said...

... as I wrote, that is damned near 100%.

Epaminondas said...

If you are in a room with three people and two want you stoned to death, it's a problem. But that's just 67% - well above the general border for a complete and utter rout and landslide in the USA.

If you are in a room with 9 people in egypt and you are alone in wanting out of islam (which is the Pew #) AS THEY ALL SEE ISLAM, it really doesn't matter a lot if 8 out of 9 is not 100%. NO ONE IS GOING TO STAND WITH YOU ON THE BASIS OF INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, even if they think you apostate. THEY WOULD FACE A HARSH TUNE.

Anonymous said...

Keep facing the consequences of the problem, not the cause. Yeah you'll do fine..

One of you wrote somethin like "they are killers, and rapists because of Islam, because they are Muslim".. You are not brain-washed, not imprisoned by a sick goverment, but yet you can think a whole nation is consist of killers and rapists. You are the worst.

How many victims of a suicide bomber, would think "every muslim should be killed". I bet, it will be arround %92. Now, assume that you're a muslim, in a islamic country, your goverment, your school, and mainstream media dictates that you are poor, because of non-muslims, non-believers. They even blame Christians for a fucking earth-quake which recently you lost couple of friends. Yeah, that's the world they are living in.

And, ofcourse they will built a Islamic Republic, AT BEST. But not that people would not want it, but that's also your & your goverments wish too. Otherwise, you can't find cheap oil, cheap employee, and find a country to sell some expensive guns. Of course, states will not help egypt to building a independant republic, bring edujaction, and this is a business call.

Your goverments not much differ. While other countries suffer, they are watching them stuggle, and even on Turkey example, they help second world countries to become an islamic republic, if there is any potential. Do you knew that Obama's first international visit was to see Erdogan, and he was not even elected yet. 8 years passed and now Turkey is drifting on the road of becoming an arabic union country. That happened before. check Iran's history. check Iraq. Then think again.

If you still think that muslims, buddists or pagans are killers or rapists, sorry for my language, but, f* you, f* your reality and f* your way of understanding human rights.

Pastorius said...

You are not dealing with the point of this post. I understand that Muslims are the people you live around, the people you love, etc. I understand that.

But, the point of this post is that 92% of Muslims in Egypt want apostates stoned to death.

That is unacceptable.

If that is how Muslims believe, then Muslims should stay in countries like Saudi Arabia, and never be allowed to leave. That way your insane ideas are not spread any further.

I pity the poor Egyptian Christians who have to live with these "apostate" murderers.

How do you feel about it? Should apostates be put to death?

Anonymous said...

This is exactly what they want.The nexus between the nazis and muslim is fact.Rommel did his job well.they are using some of the same plays.We've had sixty years to get and stay on top of the game to prevent this.Why didn't we?Well that would take five pages to explain.Summed up everything else was more important.In the interest of civility and freedom we have allowed muslims in our country,involved them in our government/military[infiltration techniques are easier if your enemy opens the door wide open]given them access to welfare including work in welfare offices.Wonder why they have so many schemes of fraud going?!/sarc
WAKE UP WE ARE ALONE>Our government won't hear us or doesn't care due to the fact that they are in bed with them.This really is stasi/nazi state.

Anonymous said...

May I ask, what was the sample size? When was it taken? In which countries was it taken? What spread of age groups and genders was it representative of?

Just as there is no generic christianity, neither is there a generic islam. Different countries interpret islam differently, and add their own historic and cultural flavours. You cannot compare a Malaysian muslim to a Saudi muslim. Shi'ites and Sunnis have been at war with one another for centuries over minor differences in beliefs, just as Ireland's Catholics and Protestants have. Listen to John Lennons "Imagine" ... he had teh right idea.

Pastorius said...

Anonmyous, did you read the article?

It's a Pew Poll.

Pew Polling is known for it's professionalism and accuracy.

The results are not skewed, nor are they ambiguous.

And there is no similar answer you could get by polling Christians in the Western world on any question.

Working Mom said...

UTAH: The media tells us the Conservatives are fighting for The Republic. Yes, they insist that the United States is not meant for the practice of Democracy.

84%: Believe RINO's and "Centrists" should face the death penalty---at least in the primary.

95%: Say it's good that their ahistorical, modern, ultra-right form of Christianity plays a large role in politics
70%: Are concerned or very concerned about Obama's place of birth, the "high living with zero effort" of the bottom half of our citizenry, the seven documented illegal voters found in all 50 states combined since 2000, and the delusion that Obama's Eisenhower-like administration is "ultra-leftist" and "socialist".

We're confusing Mass Delusion with what was once a set of genuinely conservative beliefs and policies.

When they talk of "Democracy" they actually mean a gaggle of loyal, ideologically-fixated functionaries working for a small, vastly wealthy group within the Ruling Elite. The word, like "Republic" is used to protect, enable and rationalize a tiny but powerfuout-of-control with a Constitution protecting Human Rights.

If 84% of conservatives want to stone public school teachers to death---even the ones in the five states that prohibit any collective bargaining, then DEMOCRACY IS IMPOSSIBLE!

By the way, the United States is comprised of approximately 91% of citizens who attended our public schools and 9% who didn't.

So, if 84% of US Citizens approve of their own local public schools---which they have since the time Gallup started asking that question in the mid-1980's---then Conservatives will want most teachers and assertive parents stoned to death. And that means damned near 100% of Republicans favor the Delusional Straw Man as a way of shifting public attention from their real agenda: The Elimination of All Political Opposition - Starting With the "low-hanging" fruit of vilifying educators...after you shut down the publicly-elected school boards and hand over taxpayer dollars to a handful of already wealthy country club and fraternity buddies.



This is the equivalent of Nazism, folks.

Working Mom said...

Hey, "Avenging Apostate", does this sound familiar?

"That is all I am saying. In the end, it will always be Jews against the rest. Whether those Jews grew up in the west, ate pork or held their hands when their children converted to other religions, they will always go with their Jewish brethren when the time comes."

Anti-semitic? An absolute outrage? Really? Then why is it apparently okay to say this as long as the object of your hatred and lies is Muslim?

Pastorius said...

Working Mom,
I looked up that quote and I can not find a source on it.

I don't know who said it.

Could you give me a link?