Friday, March 27, 2009

"Muslim smokers worse than cows" says Muslim cleric

The smoking fatwa is in place, but it's none too popular even amongst Muslims.

Muslims who smoke and try to portray themselves as pious are worse than cows which defecate in the street, a top Malaysian Muslim cleric and politician said.

"...a cow which defecates in the middle of the road, (we) cannot take legal action against it because it has no brain and cannot think," said Nik Aziz who is the spiritual leader of the country's Pan-Islamic Party (PAS).


"But human beings, who have brains, for them to do something which is wrong in religion ... when they are in an attire which symbolizes Islam, they can be regarded as being more despicable than cows," he said on Friday, according to Malaysia's state news agency Bernama.

PAS is one of the three parties in Malaysia's opposition alliance led by former deputy prime minister Anwar Ibrahim.

Nik Aziz said that smoking was forbidden by Islam.

Recently, Indonesia's top Islamic body passed a fatwa or ruling banning smoking. Malaysia's top Islamic body has also banned smoking.

Despite the ban in Malaysia, where over half the population of 27 million is Muslim, 50 percent of the male population smokes according to World Health Organization (WHO) data.


Unknown said...

This endless description of what people can do is almost as obnoxious as the Muslim's constantly telling people what to do. Let's accentuate the positive my Muslim moralizing friends.

Anyone here an Immanuel Kant fan? One of his good points was that one does not really make a moral decision unless one is given the freedom to do so. Under compulsion or blind obedience, you lose your "personhood" and cease to be a moral agent. In other words, morality requires freedom.

Well that is another one for our Muslim moralizing friends to debate. But these endless "you shall nots" because we say insult our intelligence and "personhood."

Anonymous said...

well then, the solution is obvious.

the 50% that dont smoke will have to cut off the heads of the 50% who do smoke.

its a win/win from this infidels perspective.

Damien said...

Culturist John,

Anyone here an Immanuel Kant fan? One of his good points was that one does not really make a moral decision unless one is given the freedom to do so. Under compulsion or blind obedience, you lose your "personhood" and cease to be a moral agent. In other words, morality requires freedom.

Yeah I remember that about Kant. Its one of the strong points of his philosophy.

Anonymous said...

Anybody here ever smoked a Muslim?

If you know anyone who has smoked a Muslim in, say, Afghanistan or Iraq, please convey my thanks.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Just Cause said...

John, they would need to have a look at a dictionary first to find out what moral means, assuming Allah permits them to look at dictionaries of course after all, Mohammed wasn't a reader, no reason why his followers should be either.

Rumcrook, I like your thinking!

Anonymous said...

dude relax sarcasm is my middle name.

its an old family name on my fathers side......

im aware of all the sound arguments you made. next time I will try not to forget a sarc tag / after the comment

Damien said...

Just Cause,

I don't think we can ban a religion in the west outright without seriously violating our values. However we can ban many of its practices. The right to wave one's fist ends where my face begins. We can also seriously restrict immigration from Muslim countries, until they start embracing western values and allowing people of other religions to practice freely and openly. Weather non Jihadist Muslims are living a lie or not is irrelevant to my point. One way to keep more of the moderate Muslims from becoming Jihadists is to is to stand up to the Jihadists. Seeing the Jihadist fail (weather terrorist or cultural,) will discourage them from joining their ranks. We shouldn't stop criticizing Islam, but why should we treat those Muslims who oppose Sharia and Jihad, (even if they are being contradictory) the exact same way we treat the terrorists? Plus living in a society where their beliefs are openly criticized where they can't stop the criticism will make them get used to it. If they can't stop it, it will encourage them to tolerate it. Also openly criticizing their beliefs will discourage other people from becoming Muslims in the first place.

You said you had no compassion for non Jihadist Muslims. Should we just go about killing every Muslim on the planet, including those that you would consider Muslim in name only? I doubt we will be able to get rid of Islam in our life time anyway. Its far too ingrained and we are having enough trouble as it is getting our fellow westerners to stand up for their culture and their freedom.

Just Cause said...

Damien, just because I have no compassion for them doesn't mean I want them killed, I didn't mean to imply that. My point was that IMO theres a ultra fine line between moderate and Jihadi thus I look upon all Muslims as potential Jihadis and have no compassion for a moderate's standpoint of renouncing the bad bits of the religion. Consider this analogy - two guys are trying to steal your wallet, one of them has a gun, you shoot the guy with the gun and his friend will either reach for the gun or see the error of his ways. Even if he chooses the latter it doesn't mean he's now my friend and wont avenge the death of his friend once my guard is down.

I agree though that criticising Islam in order to prevent people from joining the ranks in the first place is a viable tactic.

As for violating our values, as an example you can't defend our value of tolerance by tolerating a faith that is intolerant of your values and is pursuing an agenda to destroy them, that is illogical. If you're fighting for your life or cultural survival then trying to remain a moral authority is a one way ticket to oblivion, Israel is a perfect example of where this gets you.

Damien said...

Just Cause,

I'm not suggesting we do anything suicidal. For one thing, Imams and other Muslims who preach Sharia can be arrested for sedition or thrown out of the country. Not to mention I support severally limiting immigration from all Muslim countries right now, until their leaders openly condemn Sharia and start tolerating other religions.

One of the reasons Israel acts the way it does is because the outside world puts such incredible pressure on them to act that way, and so they don't eliminate threats to their survival for fear of losing what few allies they have and the allies they do have, are lukewarm at best. The free world really needs to just let them do what must be done.

Just Cause said...

"The free world really needs to just let them do what must be done." Amen to that my friend.

Epaminondas said...

It's getting a little hard for me to complain that sharia as sedition when the prez is advocating SEVERAL seditious courses himself, and CONGRESS GOES ALONG.

Never the less, it IS sedition, PASTO is completely correct.

The Quran and Hadith are pock marked with racism and religous hate speech, and incitement to violence.

Incitement which results in violence IS both illegal in the USA and remonstrable thru civil action.

Why this was not done in the cases of sudden jihadism in NC and Seattle FOR INSTANCE, is beyond me.

Sooner or later, because the Quran must be accepted as the word of a perfect being by anyone calling themselves a muslim, we are going to have to deal with someone acting out of this profound difference between other religions and Islam and cannot paper over the perpetrator as insane.