Monday, January 28, 2008

The horrifying collective punishment of the Gazans

As he left the city he told those who had suffered under his collective punishment ....
"I want peace, and believe it can only be reached through war, and I will ever conduct war with a view to perfect and early success.

But, my dear sirs, when peace does come, you may call on me for any thing. Then will I share with you the last cracker, and watch with you to shield your homes and families against danger from every quarter. "

As the collectively punished, and occupied suffered, another told the world ..(paraphrased)


"The success of this occupation can only be judged 50 years from now. If at that time they have a stable prosperous democracy then we shall have succeeded"

In each of these cases the populations suffered terribly.

In each of these cases a government of few, freely elected and representative acted against another nation or nations and brought upon their own people the wrath of death by fire and sword. In each case the population at large was shelled, bombed, burned out of their homes, farms, and land because of the actions of those few in power and their historic civilizations were OBLITERATED PERMANENTLY

Of course, the first speaker is William T Sherman as he left Atlanta for the March to Savannah, and the second is Dwight Eisenhower speaking of Germany.

And so we come to the southerners and Germans, and Japanese of our generation. Those Arabs who freely voted for a system which cannot live with an Israel, brought war and death upon themselves, and now suffer for it.
sderot_rockets.jpgThey all deserve everything which happens, for they chose it freely and are accountable for it, just as did the south, and those who brought Hitler to power by vote in 1932.

HAMAS has rained 4000 missiles upon Israel proper. Not upon IAF bases, or IDF bases. Not at Merkavas or Saar class missile boats, but cast into the air to land at random in the cities and towns.

They have no electricity as the Germans had none by 1944 and 1945. Their streets resemble Richmond and Atlanta. But yet the Israelis and Americans refuse to name the the perdition chosen by these people.

They face the result of the war they chose, in order to kill the jews or make them submit if they remained alive.

They chose the path of Israel's death and have found an Atlanta and Berlin and in their midst instead.

Give then more of it. Until they SUBMIT, and let the result of the battlefield determine the political and religious outcome. It is the kindest thing we can do. To allow HAMAS to use the humanity of the liberal west as their best defense is to allow barbarism to triumph over logic.

And on the day they throw out HAMAS and choose to live with an Israel, we should see to it that the Israelis share the last cracker with them, and guard their homes against danger from every quarter, including those salafist murderers who have volunteered them since 1920 to fight to the last Palestinian, and brought them death, fire and destruction, unemployment, starvation and no education for their children



Sodra Djavul said...

I understand that Jews gleefully toast the invasion of the Confederate States of America, because not one of them ever stood with Thomas Jefferson at the founding of the nation.

None of them have ever understood the principles on which this nation was founded, nor have contributed anything meaningful to the idea of the separation of state and local government.

If you will gleefully toast the destruction of Southern heritage, through unconstitutional action against Southern states perfectly within their legal right to secede, then I will have no choice but to gleefully toast the Holocaust.

No wait, that would make me as vindictive as the Jewish bastards perpetrating this division.

But the time is coming. And it serves my purpose as much as yours.

- Sodra

VinceP1974 said...

So you're actually comparing Southerners with the Palestianians? Heck,.. you're even comparing the Germans to them?

You might want to reexamine this comparasion.

And besides.. israel didn't cut off power to Gaza... HAMAS did.

Pastorius said...

You are funny. Are you a parody?

Pastorius said...

Thank God the VB, BNP and the others aren't racist Ethnic Nationalist parties. They can save Europe.

You ought to go over to CVF and share your feelings with Christine.

Sodra Djavul said...

I care about Europe, but I care more about the U.S., as originally intended by the Founding Fathers. Or rather, my part of the U.S.

Personally, I'm voting for McCain. He definitely has his faults. But it will be snowing in hell as I look out at the skating rink of the bottomless pit while I recover from my role as Beelzebub's butt buddy before I vote for one of you Yankee fucks.

- Sodra

Pastorius said...

Why are you a supporter of Israel? What is it you like about Israel?

Pastorius said...

I don't know where you get the idea that Jewish people are against white people? Most Jews are white.

It is true that some Jews have prejudices against Christianity. The Union of Reformed Jews and the ADL, for instance, have made it a point in the past few years (even as Islamic anti-Semitism has risen to frightening heights) to tag Evangelical Christians as dangerous. This is ridiculous.

However, I don't know where you get the idea that Jews are anti-white?

Anyway, so do you support Israel because of their values, or because they are to you a model for an Ethnic Nationalist state?

Sodra Djavul said...

Ahh, the old canard of ethnic nationalism.

As I've pointed out with my debates with Lex (also known as Pim's Ghost) over at Gates of Vienna vs. The World and What Would Charles Martel Do, I have nothing against indigenous peoples of the U.S. who are of color, who truly adhere to American values as set forth by our founding fathers.

Alexander Hamilton was a mulatto, and he was one of our founding fathers. But I am not God, and I know for certain that those who wish to cross our borders today are merely doing so for a paycheck, not a respect for American ideals.

I disagree quite vehemently with anyone who suggests that this country is simply "an idea" that can be magically stamped upon anyone who crosses our border.

The fact of the matter is that the U.S. was founded by white Europeans. Hamilton himself went to extraordinary measures to fit in with the European ideal of civilized behavior.

Throwing open our borders to the third world is suicide, as none are worthy of his shadow.

So, if that makes me an ethnic nationalist, so be it. We were not set up as a refuge for the excess refugee population of the entire world.

As for Israel, they are an ally. I'm not applying for citizenship there, although I'd like to spend some time there at some point.

- Sodra

Sodra Djavul said...

Let me remind you, Benjamin Franklin said "A republic, if you can keep it."

You obviously cannot. Lincoln proved that.

So, therefore...

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another.."

- Sodra

Epaminondas said...

Vince get with it....
The south declared war via separation and fired upon Ft Sumter, a conscious act, and the people as a whole suffered 'collectively' for electing and CHOOSING CONSCIOUSLY THAT COURSE. As did the Germans.

War is visited upon those who choose it, and it is no collective punishment. Not in Atlanta, not in Nurnberg, and not in Gaza.

The comparison is quite apt, and as for you Sodra.....

You are on ignore.
What a complete, self congratulatory buffoon!
And a racist one to boot.

Next you'll be asking why do birds of the same species flock together.

"I know for certain that those who wish to cross our borders today are merely doing so for a paycheck, not a respect for American ideals"

You mean like the ~30 million (out of about a population of 100 million) at the turn of the last century (~1880-1910)?

We did all right with that legal mass didn't we?

What a sad sad case you are!

Why don't you wrap yourself in that symbol of racism and crawl up on the statue on the main drag in Richmond I used to pass all the time. You can sit on the lap of the man on the horse. A man who no matter how it is dressed up, or what tortuous wordy gymnastics are attempted, fought for the life and existance of slavery in this land. Enjoy that flag.

This nation IS an idea, as you have so eloquently and unintentionally proven.

"None of them have ever understood the principles on which this nation was founded, nor have contributed anything meaningful to the idea of the separation of state and local government"

That is the voice of a group I am personally experienced with .. the KKK.

Thanks for making it so simple

Stogie said...

Sherman was a bastard and a war criminal, a man who made war on women and childre...the South deserved this because they elected to self-govern? What a bunch of complete crap, Epinoedus. I suppose Poland "chose" war by resisting the Nazi invasion and so deserved what they got. A woman who is raped "chooses" strangulation by resisting.

Someday I am going to visit Sherman's grave and take a great big PISS on it.

However, Sodra, you're wrong too. Jews had nothing to do with Lincoln's war of conquest. The Secretary of State of the Confederacy was Judah P. Benjamin, a devout Jew, and many Jews served in the Confederate army, including Moses Ezekiel, who served with the VMI cadets and stopped a Yankee attack at New Market, Virginia(by Union General Franz Sigal). After the war Moses Ezekiel became a sculptor and sculpted the Confederate monument at Arlington Cemetery, where he is buried.

Epaminondas said...

The south literally CHOSE WAR. And got the first modern war, a war of the people's.

I invite you to piss on his grave, no doubt he would admire you for it. But if you can tell me he did anything different than what Lemay did, or FDR or Truman, or Ike, or Genl Clark I'm all ears. They all deserve that moniker of war criminal?

The south had a representative govt and chose war at that little place in Charleston Harbor off Moultrie. Which btw, is why Rhett CHICKENED OUT on pulling the 1st lanyard. Those ARE the facts and they are perfectly reflected in Gaza.

Forget Sodra, she is an ignoramus...
"I understand that Jews gleefully toast the invasion of the Confederate States of America"

No doubt it was at her local C of CC meeting she heard that one.

BTW, when would that toast lock to .. MCdowell and Manassas? McClellan on the Peninsula? Burnside at Fredericksburg? Grant at Donelson? Hooker at Chancellorsville? Grant in the Wilderness? Sherman after breaking out in Tennessee?

An embarrassment of justification for inner compulsions to justify racist impulses.

Sodra Djavul said...

My point was that this fine example (Epaminondas) gleefully celebrates the extermination of a culture, while simultaneously condemning them as the guilty party.

I stand corrected on my previous statement regarding historical contributions of Jews over the separation of powers between federal and local levels.

I am very much pro-Israel for the reasons I laid out above. However, it seems more and more frequent for American Jews to be cut from the cloth of this blogger, demonizing the South (comparisons to Nazi Germany and the Palestinians) for reasons that are pretty much based on 1960's-era liberal radicalism rather than historical fact.

- Sodra

Epaminondas said...

1960's era liberalism = anti SLAVERY

Fine. Good.

Epaminondas said...

btw, for an interesting time readers, just google "sodra djavul" in quotes and read a few FACTS.

Start w/ Van der Gallien.


Sodra Djavul said...

I thought you were ignoring me. I'm somewhat flattered that you're running to and fro trying to keep tabs on me. But only somewhat. No one really likes stalkers.

As for the slavery issue, at the time of the Civil War it was an economic necessity for the agrarian economy. It was not for the industrialized North. I suppose it's very easy to demonize individuals for not being so progressive when it's only their livelihood at stake and not your own. Human slavery is an ancient practice, not some new invention the evil Southerners formulated to make them rich. In fact, it was so common that most of the Founding Fathers owned slaves themselves.

Now, was it wrong? Of course. Was tossing the Declaration of Independence and Constitution into the trash in order to justify Lincoln's war against the South also wrong? Of course. Are you a buffoon for claiming the moral superiority of the North without examining the totality of causes? That I will leave for your readers to decide.

- Sodra

Epaminondas said...

1) The facts are not well disposed for you.
Mcormack Patent 1834. Not one slave was a necessity.

2) Stalking implies I am trying to 'get' you ..that would make every reporter a stalker, every commenter responsible enough to look for facts a stalker

3) Had Lincoln been the strict constructionist, as you wish, he would have listened to Chief Justice Taney, and AS YOU WISH this "economic necessity" this "peculiar institution" would have continued. Instead he took EVERY PRESIDENT'S CONSTITUTIONAL PREROGATIVE and ignored him.
Had he not done so, then Davis would have been free to eucher his genls who wanted the slaves free to serve (Longstreet) even longer than he did (1863).

Slavery was NEVER a necessity, it was the practice which made the luxury of the greedy possible. Nothing more.

There can be NO ARGUMENT that the south decided to leave the union IN ORDER TO PRESERVE SLAVERY. Their failing reproductive rates compared to the North made the popular outcome of complete emancipation inevitable.

Lincoln acted properly after the south attacked Sumter. Nothing made them do so, and Greeley, one of the most powerful abolitionists in the North argued to let the 'departing sister leave in peace'. UNTIL Sumter.

But the Constitution as quoted by several Justices (Jackson, Goldberg) is no suicide pact. Two inimically aimed nations on this continent?...I don't think so.

How you can try to stand on YOUR personal interpretation of the Constitution (not the definitive one, YOURS) and be wrong on nearly or every 'fact' you have presented is an ICON for those who believe as you do.

In short your opinions are CONSTRUCTS, adverse opinions or leanings formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge..which btw is a DICTIONARY DEF of prejudice (to justify some sad inner compulsions).

I had thought Pasto was correct and that you must be a parody.

I find it breathtaking that you can make statements about jews not being with Jefferson (Truro to you, as well) and have NO KNOWLEDGE of the Atty Genl or Sec of War, and a former US Senator, of the Confederate States of America, and then call anyone else a buffoon.

Maybe men like THIS (skip the fluff and just read the citation) have earned more respect than you rate and today are standing right with TJ (who founded my school)

Sodra Djavul said...

Slavery was a necessity in the 1860's era South. While McCormick (note your mispelling) patented his reaper design in 1834, it was not until 1847 (13 years before the start of the Civil War) that the McCormick Harvesting Machine Company was founded in Chicago for mass production of the devices. So, you are advocating a complete overhaul of an entire industry that would be impossible given your timelines even in modern times, all to support your own claim of moral superiority.

Lincoln's stationing of additional troops in Fort Sumter was a direct violation of the sovereignty of the Confederate states, meant to intimidate them into continuing to provide tax revenue to the renegade Northern government. It was a provocation. However, the firing on Fort Sumter in a rather uncoordinated manner was a significant strategic blunder. The presence should have been removed by a massed force.

Supreme court justices are not legislators. Their opinions should matter as much as your local editor.

Now, as for Jews standing with Jefferson at the founding of the nation, I stand by that statement. Find me a Jew that signed the Declaration of Independence.

I was mistaken over later contributions to the separation of powers, as pointed out to me, and admitted that I stood corrected.

- Sodra

Epaminondas said...

Excuse me but Lincoln acted properly against REBELLION, AND he did it on federal property. LIKE GUANTANAMO is the best kind of argument you might marshal. Now if Castro fired on our base, I wonder what would happen?

Again, knowing exactly what was at stake is just why RB Rhett, one of the loudest firebreathers, wouldn't accept the honor of opening fire.

Your statement of slavery being a necessity is absurd. Again a prejudice. Every fact shows only a small % owned. 384,000 out of over 8 million. DO the arithmetic. Yet the greed of these men created a war in which STILL more Americans died than all the rest combined.

Moreover your argument about 1847+ is equally ridiculous. Use of the reaper in the north INCREASED farm output in the same period as men left. This continued from 1861-65. Nothing was stopping the south from the same productivity in cotton output, but why would they? THEY HAD SLAVES. By 1852 McCormick's business became the largest farm implement factory in the world.

Keep on digging. Justifying. Misspelling (or typos) the best you got?

Since there were less than 2000 jews in america in 1775, I doubt if it would be possible to find one established enough to be a signer, HOWEVER,....about 30 seconds of work (which you could have done) yields..."in Charleston, South Carolina, almost every adult Jewish male fought on the side of freedom. In Georgia, the first patriot to be killed was a Jew (Francis Salvador). And additionally, the Jews provided significant financing for the patriots.

The most important of the financiers was Haym Salomon (arrested as a spy by the British, btw) who lent a great deal of money to the Continental Congress. In the last days of the war, Salomon advanced the American government $200,000. He was never paid back and died bankrupt."

In present dollars I wonder what that $200,000 would be worth?

If fighting, dieing and financial support for the revolution is not 'standing with Jefferson' especially considering the incredibly small number of jews here, I can't imagine what is.

No matter, though, no fact can overcome prejudice.

I bid you adieu