Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is, in my opinion, telling the world that Israel will soon set out to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities:
JERUSALEM (AFP) - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has accused the international community of “doing nothing” over Iran, likening the situation to the appeasement of the 1930s when faced with the rise of Nazism.
“Like the 1930s in Germany, the international community hears voices today calling for the destruction of Israel and does nothing,” he said Friday during a speech at the country’s Holocaust memorial, Yad Vashem.
“For the first time, the leader of a great nation (Iran) declares that its objective is the destruction of the State of Israel, which does not stop this nation from remaining a legitimate partner in the UN,” he added.
Israel was founded on the idea that "Never Again" would the Jews allow themselves to be the victim of genocide.
If I were an Israeli I would not hesitate for a second. World opinion be damned.
Once a madman gets a button it is too late!
So send in the assassins and the bombers.
The hojatieh are praying the Israelis do just this.
I hope they are smart enough to pull this off and the world will owe them a BIG one.
I hope our politicians back Israel unlike 1981 when Iraq was struck. Another mistake and sign of weakness.
I didn’t know Iran had tried prior to Israel. If that’s the case, we should point that out when Iran is bombed by Israel (or us.)
World is no longer ruled by males. Those are just females with dick. Females when scared, just sit and scream. And waiting for something to happend. If the west is destroyed, then it is only our fault. And that will proove that muslims are better than us. They know what they want, they get what they want. Lets see who want more.
About a year or so ago, Israel made a huge purchase of bunker busters, anti-tank weaponry, and some laser-guided bombs with penetrating warheads. I thought this was an impending sign of Israel getting ready to strike at Iran.
But let's not forget how Israel has made sudden, unexpected strikes in the past, i.e that reactor in Iraq many years ago.
You sound like the exact pussies you are criticizing. What kind of man sits around and whines about how his side is going to lose?
For God's sake.
I don't see how Israel can pull it out this time - Iran is too far away. Back in 1981, they had to strip their airplane even from guns in order to take as much fuel as possible in order to reach Iraq and be able to return.
US, on the other hand, is quietly amassing naval forces in the Gulf.
With flying tankers the range of Israeli fighters is virtually rangeless. Protecting the tankers, however, may not be easy.
From the Washington Times:
"Israel is in the best position militarily in its history to mount air strikes against Iran, after a decade of buying U.S.-produced long-range aircraft, penetrating bombs and aerial refueling tankers.
Tel Aviv has ratcheted up the volume in attacking the hard-line Islamic regime as it fights the Iranian-backed Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. In the past, Israeli politicians have talked openly of attacking Iranian nuclear sites to prevent the U.S.-designated terror state from building atomic warheads.
Israel has purchased 25 $84 million F-15I (I for Israel) Ra'am, a special version of the U.S. F-15E long-range interdiction bomber. It also is buying 102 of another long-range tactical jet, the $45 million F-16I Sufa. About 60 have been delivered.
The Jewish state also is buying 500 U.S. BLU-109 "bunker buster" bombs that could penetrate the concrete protection around some of Iran's underground facilities, such as the uranium enrichment site at Natanz. The final piece of the enterprise is a fleet of B-707 air-to-air refuelers that could nurse strike aircraft as they made the 900-mile-plus trip inside Iran, dropped their bombs and returned to Israel. "
That's all great, but look at the map. The distance to Iran is twice as long as that to Iraq and there's no friendly territory around.
Watcher mentions: "US, on the other hand, is quietly amassing naval forces in the Gulf."
RIYADH (Reuters) - Top world oil exporter Saudi Arabia said on Friday it was taking measures to protect its oil and economic installations from a "terrorist threat".
Western naval forces in the Gulf have been deployed to counter a possible seaborne threat to its Ras Tanura oil terminal.
Yeah, protecting Saudi interests, that's the ticket. (wink, wink)
Watcher: Check out this assessment: http://web.mit.edu/ssp/Publications/working_papers/wp_06-1.pdf
It is very interesting, I am ex-airforce but long time and way out of the loop. However, the assessment does seem realistic to me.
Note the f16i with a possible range of 2100km.
The Arabs are not known for their level of readiness or state of alert either so finding possible air corridors may not be impossible.
If that is not enough, then maybe some friendly airport can be found for refueling somewhere. We can also start a collection for an Israeli carrier or maybe Israel has some friends with carriers somewhere - not for landing - but for delivering air refueling - who knows...
It's not about the range..I'm sure we can deniably help with tanking assets, but everything I have read and seen says that even with repeated, relentless strikes inside the crater inside the crater inside the crater, etc we will never be able to be sure we reached the targets we KNOW of (Natanz). There is no political will for nuclear bunker busters, and we don't have the will for an on the ground aided raid by Special forces, but I bet Israel does.
This is a Bobby Lee move. The american move should be to follow the Israeli strikes with relentless decapitation.
Merciless, relentless, determined regime killing strikes. If we don't have the will for that, the next step is to plan on watching Israeli nuclear counter strikes after Tel Aviv is vapor and 2 million palestinians die of radiation in the west bank (who will be Israeli victims for lack of medical care, right?)
I know that there will be individuals who dislike what I am going to state, but, it seems as though the United States has everything to lose and nothing to gain if there is a war between Israel and the Muslim states. If we were to really analyze what is going on in that part of the world, you will see that is the case because:
1 The Arab States will never acknowledge Israel as a separate state, no matter what happens.
2 The Arab States will undoubtedly blame the US if Israel attacks any Arab State, which will only create more resentment toward our country and strain relations between our country and others, and before someone so colorfully says that we do not need any other country to help us, remember that it is necessary to trade goods with others countries around the world in order to prevent our economy from collapsing.
3 The US already has it’s hands full with N. Korea, and this war will no doubt prove too much for our soldiers to bare, after all they are suffering from battle fatigue right now, imagine if they have to fight in another Arab State, or N. Korea, or worse yet, imagine if they have to come back to our country to police us because there are too many underground terrorists?
4 If the US wants to really provide some type of democracy and show some type of civility, we must follow what the UN dictates, we are not the only country that is on this planet, even though it sounds like it at times.
5 If this country were to really want to cripple that side of the world we would ban all trade to that hemisphere, including Israel, and invest in some type of alternative fuel source so that the US does not have to purchase oil from a country that is so adamant about destroying anyone who isn’t their version of Islamic, remember Shiite and Sunni’s are both Muslim and are fighting each other in Iraq.
6 And most importantly, we cannot state something as simple as “kill em all” because that is not only an ill-fated move on our part, but it can also be used by our adversaries as a tool to justify what they do to when they bomb places of work ad worship. Also, we must remember that war never ultimately solves anything, look at all the wars we have fought within the last century, has anything changed? World War I lead to World War II, which led to the cold war, which lead to the Korean War, which lead to Vietnam, and so on.
7 If we want to do what is right, first fix the schools, educate people, create jobs, and re-organize our immigration policies so it’s harder for the people who shouldn’t be here to arrive here.
8 Enlist the aid of the military to patrol and enforce our borders, as well as police our airlines, since they are the newest target instead of sending them to a foreign land and “helping” people who never asked for it, let alone dislike us.
9 If we really want the extreme Muslim terrorists to leave us alone, we should stay out of affairs dealing with the Middle-East, meaning we should refrain from aiding EVERY COUNTRY, including Israel, and force both sides to come to some agreement.
10 And the most convincing argument is that the Arab Countries have enough economic resources to purchase a Nuclear Device, and our borders being the way it is, it is only a matter of time before a major US city no longer exists, and for all of you nay-sayers, look at Hiroshima…
11 So for all of you people who are saying to “Kill em all” or that we should aid in the killing, if you feel so adamant about it, how come you are still in the US and not helping out in the Middle East, I’m sure Israel would love to have you
12 Please don’t state that I’m “Ant-American” or that I support what happened in New York City, I live in New York and had to witness the attack first hand, not to mention witness all the empty coffin’s which were buried that year, so please don’t mention my loyalty, My city and family paid enough you should be thankful that this incident hasn’t happened again and hope it never does. As far as who I think is responsible, it’s simple, the government failed to catch and deport these monsters and we paid the price
13 If anyone thinks I’m too liberal, or Communist, or just a blight who needs to swallow a bullet, try putting your loved one’s (wife, husband, daughter, son) in a burning building thousands of feet high and watch them melt in front of you and see what words you can come up with in order to console the victims families
So go ahead an call me names and say say as much negative stuff you can, go ahead and make fun of me, go ahead and say anything you like, my post is still here, and will be here till some moderator strips it away like a dried up blood stain
Phd theses are literally too long to deal with ..try posting 1 or 2 cogent ideas for discussion, then another 1 or 2..
First of all we are not talking about war with muslim states..we are talking about war against the hated Shia (i.e. the outright fascist theocracy, complete with racist ideology, including an official policy of denial) ..the people the Muslims Thinkers Org (among many freakish salafi loonies) believe are actually created by the jews to help destroy Islam.
NO ONE is going to ride to their "rescue", and they don't need any..they are the threat ..who do you think the Al Saud are guarding Ras Tanura from?
By the way, the heart of your arguments really seems to be that you are afraid, you ought to be, but it rules you.
This IS a war of the peoples. Not our choice. As a famous fellow who ought to know what to do in a war of the peoples once said...
"This war differs from other wars, in this particular. We are not fighting armies but a hostile people, and must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war.
War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over. "
The american people have not yet come to this realization, that there are despite the %'s so many who wish us ill, and will support actions which kill us, that we ARE in such a fight.
It makes NO difference what we do with the rest of the arab states.
Our FRIENDS say they are helping us while paying for madrassahs where hate is taught, and doing it out of oil revenue. This can all have JUST ONE END. This makes you not a communist, but foolish. The Quran is completely specific. The Traditions are specific.
They are commanded to struggle in the way of Allah until all men acknowledge Allah and his Messenger...and there are enough who are sincere about their personal responsibility in this vein that this war of the people is ordained, LITERALLY. That's not hate, that's not anything but recognition and respect.
Which why this farcical statement..
"If we really want the extreme Muslim terrorists to leave us alone, we should stay out of affairs dealing with the Middle-East, meaning we should refrain from aiding EVERY COUNTRY, including Israel, and force both sides to come to some agreement." is historical, factual, and religious IGNORANCE
Go read Qutb, his writings deal with long before Israel or american policies.
Until LONG after the USSR armed the arabs btw, the USA had an complete arms embargo against Israel (1966 I think, maybe even a bit later)..it stopped nothing, because there can be NOTHING to agree on in the middle east, because the Quran says where a muslim foot has tread, man cannot negotiate away what god gave the muslims in perpetuity. Just ask HAMAS, that's THEIR charter, and they WERE elected freely by a large majority.
Your ideas all of which are to avoid responsibility in your time for reality, are moral foolishness.
This all CANNOT be avoided.
Make your mind up to it. It's not us, or OUR reaction to them.
Others have decided this for you, Mr. Chamberlain.
Peace can only by obtained in our time and probably the next few generations, by accepting the call, or paying the tax, or death.
What are YOU planning to do about that?
Oh, come on. I think we should just keep talking about it as a "global community". Seems to be working so well already.
Epa, great answer!
Very good study, but I doubt, since it was published in such details, that sings will go this way.
I mean, I'm all for pounding Iran, and from the map provided in the report, the blue line seems to be the most realistic one, but I think it will be us who will strike Iran.
Let me state that I am not afraid, and fear does not rule me, I am concerned about the US…not Israel, or the Middle East. If the policies of both countries are snowballing to an inevitable war, then it is unfortunate, but let the Israeli government and the Jewish people who live there pay the cost with their children’s blood, and the same goes for the Muslim States. Your assumptions of the Q’uran / Koran are so “foolish” and so ignorantly simple that all you see is anger for these people.
Do you know that if a woman has a child in Israel and they are not Jewish, they are not considered a natural citizen of Israel? What kind of blatant racism is that? Prior to World War II there was no such thing as “Israel” and by the end of the war, the Jewish state vowed never to let the atrocities of WW II happen again. It seems to me that they have become the same monsters who tried to erase them off the face of the earth to begin with.
As far as “riding to the rescue” it seems that My country rides to the rescue of the Israel all the time and rarely tries to point out the negative actions of Both sides, Israel and the Islamic states. As far as the people who wish us ill, their main argument is that it is due to the support of Israel. If this is true, why not humor them and withdraw support from Israel and see if they continue. If they leave us (meaning the US) alone, then problem solved, if not, then they will blatantly display their “racist, bigotry” for what it is.
“It makes NO difference what we do with the rest of the Arab states.” This is blatantly racist. If the Israeli state were as “peaceful” as they say they are, and if the Muslim states were as “peaceful” as they state they are, then there would be no need for war. The fact that the Israeli government and the Arab governments continue to provoke one another at the cost of American lives is disgusting. I have not once seen, or heard for that matter, the Israeli government or the Arab Governments extend a hand to the victims of Hurricane Katrina. “Peaceful”? Now that’s a farce. If I am mistaken, please feel free to cite from some source, I am not afraid to be proved wrong, .
I agree that trading blood for oil is so gruesome that words cannot convey my anger, especially since my family, friends, and my citizens ar the ones paying the price, not the leaders of my county.
You say that “They are commanded to struggle in the way of Allah until all men acknowledge Allah and his Messenger...and there are enough who are sincere about their personal responsibility in this vein that this war of the people is ordained, LITERALLY. That's not hate, that's not anything but recognition and respect.” This may be true, however, Christianity and Judaism also preach the same basic rules,, love thy neighbor, tolerance for others, and, what is rarely taught, the protection of oneself from others who wish to force their religion onto another. This is not opinion but fact, and if requested I will try to find the specific passages.
“Until LONG after the USSR armed the arabs btw, the USA had an complete arms embargo against Israel (1966 I think, maybe even a bit later)..it stopped nothing, because there can be NOTHING to agree on in the middle east, because the Quran says where a muslim foot has tread, man cannot negotiate away what god gave the muslims in perpetuity. Just ask HAMAS, that's THEIR charter, and they WERE elected freely by a large majority” Well if that is the case, then why did the USSR offer to sell all of it’s nuclear devices to the US first and foremost, and only after the US diplomats declined, did the USSR sell what they had to the Arab States?
“Your ideas all of which are to avoid responsibility in your time for reality, are moral foolishness.” First, I am not avoiding responsibility; I am merely voicing my frustration with both sides that portray themselves holier than the other. Second, what you consider reality is the US, and other countries, shedding blood and sending their children to fight the Arab States, all for the sake of the Israeli government? Let the Israeli’s fight for “their land” since they claim it is theirs. Funny how I never heard of a Jewish uprising fighting to create Israel, all I remember out of history is the UN bestowing this “uncultivated” land which had settlers of Muslim descent living within its boundaries, and that is fact. The only thing that can even be considered foolish is the way which my country intervenes in middle-eastern affairs for the sake of oil. Another thing which can be considered foolish is fighting for anothers land.
I would like to state that I will never, and neither will my children, fight a war for another country. I shed blood only for things which are morally correct, and perpetuating violence between two irritating policies which are constantly being excited by irresponsible politicians located within My country and others, such as UK is asinine. The fact that voicing my opinion against the status quo in the US at this time is deemed illegal or anti patriotic is fascist, plain and simple. My freedom to choose between defending my country and fighting a war for individuals who are arguing over a piece of land mainly consisting of nothing but shrines and sand is sad. NO character in any other the three Holy texts, Q’uran, Bible, Torah, would ever agree to this insanity if it were avoidable, and by stating that we should fight the Shia/Shiite and not care about the consequences it might bring to my country is ignorant to say the least.
These people will always be here, no matter what we do. No one can erase hate and prejudice through war, if anything war propagates prejudice. My government sends my fellow countrymen to war with poor materials, (i.e. Rumsfeld stating that soldiers should go to war with the army that they have and not the army that they wish they had), and little training (in regards to Arab customs and traditions) and I should just sit here and let these irresponsible politicians send my people to war? Are you joking?
And one more thing, if Israel were sincere in its peaceful intentions, why not just give the land back to the Palestinian people, it was their land prior to 1945? Or how about acknowledging all Muslims who live in Israel as equal citizens, instead of treating them unequally? Or how about leaving that inconsequential land of the Gaza strip alone. For god’s sake, there have been more deaths for that land than it is truly worth.
I will say it one more time, I am not afraid, I’m just disgusted that people expect me to go and fight and give my life, and my children’s life, for sand, and the problems two immature religiously tied cultures have with one another, Isaac and Ishmael have nothing on those two cultures. Its unfortunate that Abraham was not impotent, it would hav saved a lot of headaches and lives.
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