Saturday, December 30, 2006

Oh, Ye Divided Infidels

For a long time I have disliked Robert Spencer. That is not to say I don't respect and admire him. Or, that I don't buy his books, and read his website. It is, instead, to say that I don't appreciate his morality. I think his world view is lacking in creativity and faith. And, I think that if everyone thought like him, the world would be an even sadder place than it already is.

Here's a quote from Robert Spencer on the morning after Saddam's execution:

With Saddam out of power, there is no one with the will or the strength to keep Iraq united, except possibly Iran -- the chief beneficiary of the American democracy project. Here is yet another fruit of the wholesale ignorance of and wishful thinking about Islam that prevails in Washington.

For my part, I don't care if Iraq is united. I think we are giving Arabs/Muslims an opportunity and it is their responsibility to seize it, and make it their own. If they choose to revert to the feeding frenzy that is Islamofascism, then that's too bad. At a certain point, we will be forced to come up with new questions and answers, new solutions, as to how to best deal with the permanently suicidal, if that is what they choose.

I have some ideas.

I'd love to hear everyone else's opinion.


Anonymous said...

Pastorius - I'm reminded of a remark I read awhile ago that we did not fight Germany and Japan to bring democracy to those countries. We fought to remove a vicious ideology so that democracy could flourish. Democracy was a side effect.

We haven’t done that in Iraq or Afghanistan or any other Islamic area of the world. Until that ideology is destroyed democracy will not happen in those areas. And you know what ideology I’m talking about – Islamism.

Pastorius said...

Yep, I agree with you there, WC. The Koran is the equivalent of Mein Kampf, and yet it is enshrined in the Iraqi constitution.

We have been fools.

Epaminondas said...

strictly paleo ...well it's one way to postpone problems, but it identifies him as Arnaud de Borchgrave, and John Foster and Allen Dulles..too bad.

Iran is a beneficiary of the liberal viewpoint that democracy spreading is good today, and that includes all Iranians. Cynically it includes, the Hojatieh and other such freaks today, but let's see what happens in 3 years, or 10 or 50.

Those who, upon the election of HAMAS pointed out in bushitler glee that the idea of spreading democracy was obviously a failure suffer from political ejaculatio praecox.

Hey, go take some ginseng and buzz.

Spencer has it right on Islam, but unless the philosophical descendants of Jefferson are ready to simply say we are those who will dump your govts, and your hopes for individual freedom for Somoza and Battista, that point of view is pointless.

Sorry Bob, I learned a lot from your Islamic knowledge and bibliographic dynamism, but your foreign policy ideas are 19th century.

Been there in 1953. It got us Khomeini. We have to lead the way, not suppress the way

Pastorius said...

I agree, Epa. Spencer is old school. Pathetic.

However, i don't agree with you that we have 10-50 years to massage the Iraq situation. We probably only have 2-3 years before the whole shithouse goes up into flames (to quote Jim Morrison).

Therefore, we have to change course dramatically.

I have some ideas on what to do, and funny enough they also come from the 19th century. In fact, they start with 1492.

ziontruth said...

It was Abba Eban said of the Arabs that they "never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity" [for peace]. I'd tack "Muslims" on it instead of "Arabs", but the message is still relevant: they've been given so many opportunities to straighten themselves out, but instead always chose to ruin themselves by caving in to their "feeding frenzy that is Islamofascism". To say they could choose to revert to it, is to say they got out of it sometime in the past--no evidence for that, I'm afraid.

The whole Iraq affair was a mistake for a very simple reason: taking the fight abroad before the home front had been put in order first. What good are the American soldiers in Iraq, whose actions, after the initial military victory in 2003, resemble Carl Denham giving a chocolate bar to that native girl in Skull Island (King Kong 2005), when Europe and America themselves are having mosques sprout up on their soil like mushrooms after rainfall? Our priorities must change. I understand that, after the shock of 9/11, people wanted military action to seize Bin Laden, which then got further derailed into Iraq, but people must come to grips with the fact that, unlike Nazi fascism, Islamic fascism can operate stateless. Quit going for the tails of the hydra.

Anonymous said...

It is not only impossible, but insane, to try to make this 1400 years old, extremely malignant tumor mysteriously disappear just because the cancer cells constituting the tumor is "set free" by the West. Before democracy can be brought to Muslim countries, the Muslim mindset/"religion" must be eliminated from the brains of the inhabitants. (The majority of the Death Cultists with whom this is not doable, must be disposed of. There is no way around that, all you bleeding hearts out there.)

The mantra "One man, one vote" has no meaning before each man (and woman) has a functional brain. "Free" elections in a country where 60, 80 or 95 % of the people are raving psychos are like allowing the inmates in a prison of rapists vote for female only guards - in limited numbers and without weapons.

Why is it so hard, even for true infidels, to understand just HOW f**ked up the Muslim mind is?

Always On Watch said...

I'd love to hear your ideas. I'm flat out of ideas, except for "the unthinkable." I believe that Iraq will "revert to the feeding frenzy that is Islamofascism," as you put it. Their tribal culture makes that reversion a near certainty, IMO.

We've seen democracy in action in the Muslim world. They voted in Hamas and Hezbollah.

Anonymous said...

Here is an idea that is clearly spelled out:

Pastorius said...

Yes, Anonymous. I've actually posted that article here previously. It's a good one. Thanks.

Pastorius said...

It's hard for us to understand that people love their prison because we fought so hard to free ourselves from ours. It seems axiomatic that all would feel the same way, considering almost all of us feel that way.

On the other hand, sometimes it seems like a very large proportion of our left also craves enslavement.

Anonymous said...

I think Spencer is the man. He writes NYTimes bestselling books on the most contoversial and important topic of our generation and he can't get any exposure from the MSM. Even prominent 'conservatives' don't like assoiating with him.

Yes his view is glum, but what if hes right? What if Islam and Democracy are incompatable? If the truth makes "the world a worse place" should we ignore it?

Pastorius said...

My beef with Spencer is not that he thinks Islam makes the world a worse place. I think that is self-evident.

My beef with Spencer is that he proposes no solutions. He only criticizes. If we are to analyze the body of his work, there is no hope against Islam, except isolation.

The thing is, isolation doesn't work in a nuclear world, so we have to come up with a winning strategy.

That ought to be obvious, especially to a man who is as much smater than me, as Spencer is.

Pastorius said...

Also, let me be clear, I respect and admire Robert Spencer. However, he is dangerous because his voice has so much power in the counter-Jihad movement.

felix said...

One of the the ideas I have been exploring is how isolating radical Islamists from western society (deporting them) can actually produce change in their home countries. See Deporting Radical Islamists from "Here" Can Help "Over There" Intuitively, it sounds right.

Anonymous said...

I think he purposefully stays out of the "proposing solutions" feild. I think he sees himself as a scholar of Islam trying to get the word out and not a policy-maker. I believe this only makes sense as hes trying to get more exposure as a scholar who only deals in facts. And, honestly, there really can be no solutions to any of the problems discussed on this site until works like Spencer's is common knowledge.