Tuesday, January 30, 2007

Islam and Muslims

Matt asks in the comments:

I do have a question for you Isaac, as one who used to follow Islam. In the US you have (broadly) a division in Christianity between those who believe what the Bible says literally (Conservatives like the Southern Baptists) and those that interpret it in modern times (like Episcopalians with gay and female priests). I know there are more divisions, but those are two general/large ones.

Would you say there is a division within Islam between the "Fundamentalist Radicals" who whole to everything within the Koran and Hadith and more moderate Muslims that ignore certain strictures and live reasonably peaceably in the West? I'm not arguing that the latter group have a powerful voice. But is that a way to explain why all of the Muslims in the US & UK aren't engaged in Jihad? Or is there another explanation?

There is certainly a division in effect but not much in the religious sense.

I'll elaborate. All of the following listed items are considered forbidden (haram) in Islam.

  • Alcohol.
  • The meat of a pig.
  • The owning of dogs as pets.
  • The wearing of gold by males.
  • Interest and therefore mortgages.
  • Paintings or photographs of animated creatures.

You can look around in the West and see numerous Muslims who don't follow, let alone know, most of these rulings. In addition, it's tough to decipher the moral angle of these matters -- but that's Islam for ya.

So, in effect, we have many Muslims who don't follow Islam to the fullest (and thank God! for that). However, this does not mean that most of these mussulman are pushing for their view in the Muslim community. (As you've realized they do not have a powerful voice.) And on the rare occasions when they do speak up, the other Muslims simply beat them by saying, "Aha, the Quran and/or Muhammad say that so-and-so is haram! End of debate."

These points should be plain to see but instead the spectacularly wrong view has become the consensus: Islam is a harmless and peaceful religion that is being hijacked by a bunch of demented thugs. That's not true. The reality is that Islam is an evil faith that has, fortunately, not managed to obliterate the shreds of humanity in all of its adherents.


Demosthenes said...

Christianity has been greatly improved by Christian willingness to pick and choose what part of their faith they believe. Part of the problem is that where Islam is, the societies are more primitive and thus a lack of ability to politely ignore religious leaders.

I can think of one strategy around the Islamic religious leaders. I noticed that when the insane Christian leftist peace activists went to Iraq and got themselves kidnapped--I forgot what they are called--they were able to form a muslim sister group with an identical ideology. Perhaps, we need to encourage Episcopalians and other liberal weeny faiths to send missionaries to subvert Islam. Let the Ayotollahs have to deal with a muslim Bishop Sprong!

serfer62 said...

I was deployed with Muslems for 17 months in the ME. I found their religous intensity was equalilent to Christians from barely religous to highly religous. Never did met a radical of either side though.

I worked with native troops who frequently ate our messtent rations of pork and shellfish. They observed Ramadon about as long as most Christians observed Lent; a couple of days. We ate their rations of sheep, goat, dog and snake...with plov of course.

One thing us Americans did was get them smiling. All former soviet states copied the grime, unsmiling soviet face. We changed that to where a platoon passing me would be mostly cheerful and friendly. And did they drink Vodka! They also held a Christmas party for us both years I was there.

I can't get on the anti-muslim bandwagon. But I say death to the terroists and their families...

Anonymous said...

Isaac S.:

As one who has abolished the Death Cult and joined ranks with The Humans, you might know the answer to this:

When Muslims are in the early stages of invading/occupying lands of the Dar-al-Harb, I know they are permitted and even supposed to (is this technically a part of taqiyya, or is it a separate war strategy?) live at least partially as normal humans, hiding lots of their "religion" until they are strong enough to fight the Kuffar.

Among other things, they shave every day, wear enormous pimpish gold necklaces, drink alcohol, go after as many as possible of our "dirty whores" - then even skip some prayers and permit themself to LAUGH.

But what I don't know with absolute certainty is: Can they eat even a microscopical piece of pork in the "war is deceit" stage? Can they tolerate ANY (if so, how serious?) "blasphemy" against their "holy" manual of terror?

I think we need to have a complete list of what ALL true Muzzies in ALL cicumstances will react to, to be able to flush them out whenever and wherever. Hope you can inform me and others, Isaac S.


revereridesagain said...

I think we need to remember that there has been a deliberate, carefully planned, coordinated plan for decades now to interfere with this normal process of reasonable people gravitating to the more life-enhancing features of a culture new to them. Look at "Eurabia" -- how many of the millions of Muslims there emigrated to find more freedom and opportunity and how many were sent fresh from the madrassas and arranged marriages for the express purpose of helping to create Eurabia? And are now overwhelming and intimidating the remnants of the first group?

Of course another problem is that when Americanized Muslims try to speak up against the hard-liners they find the latter supported against them by the PC/multicultural/America-is-evil Leftards. How do you argue that declaring pet dogs haram is nothing but superstition when the mullah is ranting at you about how Big Mo said angels won't enter a house with a dog in it and the local dhimmi do-gooders are urging you to respect your Islamic heritage? If you are a rational person you tell them to get out of your face, but there are many who don't want the trouble. So they remain silent. And perhaps the radicals use that silence to begin to make inroads on them, or to influence their kids. You say you're a good Muslim? So what are you doing with that black lab puppy? You think the Prophet didn't know what he was talking about?

You say you're a good Muslim? So why is your daughter wearing jeans instead of hijab?

You say you're a good Muslim but you won't work to establish Sharia law in this country?

And so it goes...

Isaac Schrödinger said...

Anon (True Infidel):

War is deceit. Muslims can use and do anything to hide their real goals. Yes, that includes eating pork.

This, of course, presents a problem for the West. How do we differentiate between Muslims who're genuinely non-fanatical and those who're merely faking it to blend in?

It's very important to listen to / read / see what Muslims say. They can't be in "deceit mode" 100% of the time.

For example, some weeks ago, a Muslim was kicked out of the mosque in the US for publicly criticizing Osama bin Laden. Ergo, the Muslims at that mosque are definitely the Jihadist type.

Also, recently, a CAIR buffoon refused to call Hamas a terrorist group. Right there, we know that CAIR is also an arm of Jihad.

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Isaac.

Hmm - so what you're basically saying is that unless a Muzzie rejects his "religion" LONG before it starts burning under his feet, there is NO WAY to distinguish a real convert who has been genuinely afraid for his life if he said something, from a jihadi "convert" who is out to sucker the Kuffar? Will the latter even be willing to bury the Unholy k*r*n in pig droppings?

Well, the conclusion is that my views on what we should do with ALL Muzzies (take three guesses) are becoming an even bigger necessity than I thought.