Judging by the recent posts as well as the change that seems to be taking place in world opinion regarding Muslim bullying, I think simply that the time has come to make our stand. I know, I know. We're all already doing it. What I'm talking is an umbrella organization, a website perhaps of it's own. A counter to those who would order the world around in our own lands. In becoming active in this fight, I wanted initially to start a non-profit. This proved rather difficult, and I realized that the research and the analysis was already being written anyway. I'm talking about something different.
What I mean is a big, "Oh, no you don't!" being stated to Muslims across the world that this is no longer acceptable. Call it our version of fatwas. All of the proud infidels out there, but using not the terms given us in scorn by Muslims. This is fine for the blogs, as are insightful articles about the whys and wheres, the history and the news. I write these things as well as the rest of us and love doing so. But I am talking a site that exists simply to hand down ultimatums directly to those threatening us today, to those threatening over recent events and ordering us non-Muslims around. A site designed like CAIR but condemning in official terms in the opposite direction.
In all honesty, if there is a body of people such as a non-Muslim CAIR who do these things in a more serious and not so outrageous manner, then I do not know of them. I know of the UAC, but I find their official stances and protests to be, while rather on our side to be lacking in what I want. I want all of the intelligence that we show here and on our own websites, as well as of the sites and writers that we quote. Yet I want it put in absolute terms. For years now we have read about the threats, the history (of conquest and threats) and the brilliant articles about essentially what ifs and worse case scenarios. It's time for us to issue our own decrees.
This will mean building a website for simply that purpose, and I do not know the how tos of such an experiment (yes, you can all laugh at me now, I do deserve it!). But I do think that this is necessary, and that now is the time to strike. We must keep up the reporting, the analysis, and the mockery in all of the venues that we have been using. But at this very interesting juncture in time at which many seem to be waking up and desiring to put this bully in its place, I think that if we take the lead that more will follow, and that we can lend some creedence to a growing movement of those who just want to order the thugs back into their place.
I'm in..... I have webspace that I would be willing to donate and can help with that part. I would guess we would need some "official" connection so that "decrees" could carry some weight. I don't really know...... just throwing out some ideas.
Some of us blogging here in Vancouver have been talking along similar lines. There need to be more conservative organizations trying to get into the public debate, perhaps as an alternative to the leftist take on a human rights organization - we could be standing up for rape victims/scapegoats in Pakistan, that sort of thing. As you say, there is much writing going on, but not so much synthesizing and editing of the best of it in ways that can be presented to the public with a certain discipline and focus and collective identity. I don't see why a non-profit couldn't work - to achieve much we do need some vehicle for raising funds, and for appearing publicly respectable - i.e. disciplined by the terms and bylaws of incorporation.
The most crucial aspect of this would be to find some way of forcing the MSM to carry the messages of such a site.
Like it or not, to connect with the public and to get a message across, newspapers and television are still necessary.
I think we should continue the discussion. The best way to make this successful would be to come up with a plan as to how we are going to approach issues so that we can then begin to present the idea to other bigger bloggers and organizations. We are going to need some high-powered names who are ewilling to cooperate with us. Otherwise, it will just be the Infidel Bloggers Alliance Other Organization Which Writes Press Releases And Even Longer Position Papers.
I think the idea is very good, though. So, let's work on it.
Excellent idea;I am all for it. Will contact you again from my home computer when I get back to base in a couple of days.
Founder, Chairman and sole member of the "Non-Muslim Council of Britain"
I think plenty of us have connections in places that will at least be of helpful advice.
Don't get me wrong, I think that all of the writing going on by both us and those who get paid for it is invaluable. This is a completely different tactic. Pastorius, I agree, but I think we can do it. All it takes is the idea, the will and a good presentation and others will join. There's no reason that any of the bigger sites will snub this one to my mind.
Jones--that would be great! In any of my plots I need any help on the tech side that I can get. Thanks for the offer of help!
One thing for sure is that it cannot be silly (I know, that is my natural tendency in most things). I think it should be rather like CAIR, honestly, having spent hours over the last year studying their site. We can have "action alerts", condemnations from us, etc. I don't think we need be that big before large groups with similar agendas start endorsing the agenda I proposed, as most already do so on a limited basis. It just is not their usual stated mission.
At any rate, we should keep the discussion going as Pastorius said, probably by email. Check profiles and add your mail if you want to be involved. If it picks up steam then I'll delete this OP and we'll be more covert, I just didn't think anyone else would much care without more convincing. But I think we can be our own thing, and as long as we don't veer into the absurd like other groups, I think enough people will support us. Or fatwa us...LOL
Absolutely, I think we can do it. You said we need good presentation. Yes, that's it. We do. And, in order to accomplish that, we have to really plan it out.
Ok I would suppose that first we would need a name..... something easy to remember..... not mean (even though I'd like it to be :) )maybe Advocates For Freedom, Advocates For Equallity, Council For Non-Muslim Affairs (CNMA hhhmmm....) Just some random thoughts. And then I guess the most inportant thing would be a mission statement. Something that would be strong but not so over the top that we would get lumped in with the wackos...
I think it's a great idea, but a non-Muslim equivalent of CAIR would have to look at least as slick as the original, which might mean consulting marketing experts and employing a professional web designer. No professionals are needed to supply the materials--nothing but monitoring newsfeeds is required--but I think the "skin deep" impression (and I'm not talking about the Infidel Babe/Hunk of the Week!) has to be advised by someone with expertise in the field.
Just my 2₪...
NJ--yes, it is imperative that we are not lumped in with the wackos. We will plan. My Apple IIC is not behaving this morning, so I might have to be less active than intended....I'll try to get things fixed...
CFNMA - Council for Non-Muslim Affairs. I like it. It's not threatening or sound Islmophobic and does convey the area of concern of the organization.
I'll make a blatant self-plug and propose the organization of the Council's response to news and events be organized under Intimidation, Infiltration, and Disinformation tactics used by Muslims and Mulsim organizations.
Just a suggestion.
BTW: Include me on any mailing list that gets started.
I think that this is an exceptionally good idea. Islam has many effective advocacy groups across the western world, but the West appears to have none. It seems to me that the West, a civilisation renowned for its tolerance, compassion and inclusively, is ashamed of itself and its achievements.
It is necessary to expose the causes of human rights violations in places like the Sudan and to expose examples of how Shari’a law is implemented in practice. What if the boot was on the other foot? What if it was the Muslims who were the recipients of Dhimmi status, how would they react? Would they think that Shari’a law was a system of tolerance and justice? I very much doubt it.
There is plenty of scope to expose the hypocrisy of Islamist demands for concessions in Western societies. If such concessions were mirrored by equivalent concessions from Islamic societies the ridiculous nature of Muslim demands in the West and elsewhere would be exposed. The following examples illustrate this point:
1. The creation of a Palestinian state = the creation of a Coptic state in Egypt, a Christian state in part of Nigeria, a Nubian secession in Southern Sudan, a Maronite Christian state in Lebanon, etc.
2. The building of a grand mosque as part of the London Olympics = the building of a Christian cathedral in Mecca (and the right of Christians to proselytise there!)
3. The Islamist desire to ‘recover’ Andalusia = the Western desire to ‘recover’ the provinces of the Roman Empire in North African and the Levant that were conquered by Islamic Jihad.
There are many other examples, of course.
I'm in favor of anything that will help get our message out there into the "real world" where the level of ignorance and misinformation is still staggering. I agree people are slowly beginning to "wake up" -- and they need all the resources that can be made available. If people have easy access to information that will help them assess what is really going on with the latest round of Islamorage Riots or whatever other headlines they encounter, I think we will see attitudes begin to change at a more rapid rate.
Aeneas--yes, and these should be pointed out, absolutely. I have often thought of a mockery of their calls for "al-andalus" when the Hagia Sofia is still a MOSQUE. And that's just one.
This must be international I believe at this point. The problem certainly is, and so is the web community.
Yes, it must be serious and professional in tone. WC, I'm not sure about plugs yet. Just a mailing list for brainstorming until we get things off the ground. I, for one, am far too recognizable and safety is still a concern for anyone confronting these monsters.
Yet that is my ultimate point, that instead of all of the gloom and doom and calculations of which countries will have a Muslim majority when or when political correctness will do us in for good when we know the nature of the enemy, tht we simply organize and start saying no to them all. We just ignore whatever the moonbats say, whatever CAIR and other groups say, and we march on just like the heroes of old that we have all come to admire and write about.
"The dogs may bark, but the caravan marches on."
There's a group already being formed to look at how best to do this.
Is another blog on its own the best way forward? Maybe and maybe not.
There are millions of blogs out there already. The majority of people still get their news from MSM and few read blogs. The number is growing to be sure but we've a long way to go.
So what is the best war forward? That's what this group is being formed to decide.
Maybe we can all join forces.
Have a look at this post and be sure to read the comments.
A study group has already been formed and new ideas and recruits would be welcomed.
I'd be very happy to be involved. I offer 12 years of enterprise web site development expertise and ideas on marketing. We need to cooperate and create and maintain a publicly available repository of Muslim crimes and concerns to use both as ammunition and bait in this informaiton war in order to counteract the whitewash strategy of the MSM. The repository should be free of rhetoric or any spin, thus making it a trusted source.
We should then draw on the repository to make political statements. Viral email marketing, using our blogs to google bomb repository content and organising national and regional events would all be useful and effective methods of spreading the truth. Our first battle will be overcoming the label of racists and the fear of association with "racists" that most people jump a mile at. We must therefore not hesitate to get the involvement of ex-Muslims and secular Arabs. Personally, I think we should see if Wafa Sultan and Ayan Hirsi Ali would be intersted in sharing ideas.
Marc--I wasn't aware of this. It's just the idea that I had that actually got me into blogging in the first place, as I was not able to start a full-on non-profit org. But at this point I'm a ghost on a mission. Blogs are perfect for what we all do, and I do all of these things as well. But for this we must throw off the language that Muslims use to define us by, such as "infidels", and "dhimmis". That's fine for the op-ed type of writing by the experts and blogs. I do it myself, as do many of my favorite writers, bloggers or not. But we need to walk in like people who own our rights and are not expressing fear of losing them, but rather stating flat-out that we will not. A REAL civil rights org. for once.
Choose, that will be necessary, but not until we are more organized. That will be proof that we are not just brainstorming but willing to go the distance on this. At that point we can contact people we have either contacted before as well as those experts who are known to contact people back, maybe those mentioned, but also Bat Ye'or, Daniel Pipes, etc.
I have a cold and calculated mind when it comes to this idea, and an eye for strategy. Please mail me if interested, mail on my profile.
If others are thinking this through, we should all join together. This is best.
I think we should definately join forces with Gates of Vienna on this idea. I agree with Marc. We need to avoid becoming a little splinter group.
By the way, there is a huge difference between an Infidel and a dhimmi to my mind.
A Dhimmi cowers in fears.
An Infidel lies in wait.
Charles Martel, Jean Sobieski, and Vlad the Impaler were Infidels.
Don't be insultin' the name.
Pastorius, understood, and I like using the terms myself. And "infidel" isn't an Arabic word anyway. But still, otherwise, we cannot define ourselves with this group as they would identify us. We must seem incredulous to their attitude and demands.
OK, must go check out the idea at the Gates. Don't know how I missed it.
I think it is a fantastic idea. All the comments are brilliant...Let's roll!
Hi, Pim Girl. Will check in again asap.
Let's start talking about the Westaphobia of Islamic people, and also their Christianaphobia, their Hindhuaphobia, their Buddhistaphobia and their general Lifeaphobia. Let's start highlighting again and again the abominable treatment of women and young girls whom Islamic courts execute by hanging for (even just allegedly) enagaging in sexual activity, their demonisation of homosexuals whom they execute for their "crimes", the barbarous criminal code which involves routine mutilation and regular capital punishment and even execution of apostates. In short let's stop apologising for our own tolerance of the very people who do not tolerate us and instead emphasise again and again the barbarism of Islam society.
I have a large email list and am on chat online. Whatever you do, include me!
Please put me on your maling list.
I dont have a web page but i support several websites.
The World is asleep and I have been trying to get the word out right after 911.
Yes, our time has arrived. :-)
As Marc mentioned (good job Marc), we are rolling. There is a private egroup just formed, and our initial stage is to find the other cooperators of like mind. (Which is, uh, like all of the blogs on our collective blogrolls!). DO check out the initial formation at the Gates of Vienna thread: http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/09/emperor-is-naked.html
From there, I set up the yahoogroups. I don't wish that name to yet get around, as I think we'll be more effective if we work under radar. Write to me privately and I'll add you to the egroup. vic at vicktorya dot com. (and my blog: vicktorya.com/blog)
There are several projects under consideration, that exactly this kind of umbrella organization can help create cohesion and coordination. An initial outline has been provided, and a synopsis of good ideas so far is being compiled. So far on the egroup, we just have a dozen or so comments on orientation and introduction ...
We be rolling ... come on by.
This initiative needs to be global, incorporating as many countries as possible. If some sort of focus could be created for each country we could later move to more regional and local organisation. I am posting from the United Kingdom and took part in the March for Free Expression that followed the reaction to the Danish cartoons. This is the most exciting development since then and has the potential of really making a difference. It is good to see that the Gates of Vienna blog is also thinking in the same direction. I suspect that there was a great deal of disappointment on this side of the pond when the March for Freedom of Expression movement fizzled out. We no have a second chance, and I am sure that many people here in the United Kingdom would be eager to get involved and move forward on this.
I think that this movement should cover as broad a swath of the political spectrum and blogosphere as possible. Such diversity would be our greatest strength. We must work together and share ideas to achieve the aims that we have in common.
I am interested in being involved.
Welcome on, Aeneas. We have some early members on the egroup from the UK, Australia, and soon to be many more scattered around the world. Definitely this movement IS global. The early members on the group are international-oriented though I imagine a bulk will be from the States. I'm working on a structure to allow us to see the scope of all the projects. Need help, and need the rest of the troops.
I couldn't find your email address, so I can't add you on, but anyone -- it's happening -- write to me privately and I'll add you in.
PS: Aeneas, I'm sorry about Britain. Let's try and pull it back off that slippery slope upon which it is precariously perched. We'll all help. There is much goodwill, good humour, and justifiable eagerness and a vast array of talents coming onboard.
This is a good idea. I am throwing the support of my forums and web sites behind this.
I posted this post in my forum to draw others as well as a comment of my own. I suggest reading it.
It can be found here:
War of 2 Worlds
Oddly, I had even been to Gates Of Vienna in the days preceding my post, but I have so little time that I had to just read a few things. I think this idea is in the air, I think too many have come to the conclusion that we have to take control again. And I will support that sentiment to my last breath!
I have offered to help as well, although I'm working on something for Pastorus at the moment too.
Maybe this is a bit "too much", but I think the "umbrella organization" need at least a branch devoted to building a database about islamists; name, photos, addresses, where they work, their friends and so on.
We need to start tell the names of our enemies and tell because they are our enemies.
As they are able to call a fatwa against someone telling something they dislike, we need to expose them, name and face, to turn the heat on them.
Like cockroaches they hate light and open air.
Only when we switch on the light, we will be able to combat them.
A list of Islamist groups is at http://www.discoverthenetwork.com - the site's a little fragile and sometimes it's down, but retry - it's well worth your time. Global coverage of groups & individuals, altho more in the US
count me in
I want in too! Is there an email list of everyone's blogs, such that we can all blogroll each other? I had to take a little break from blogging recently, but need to get back into the action. My emails are on their way.
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